Why Wotlk>Cataclysm

58 Orc Death Knight
0


You don't remember the trade chat spam LF 1 more mage daily heroic PST?
... PuGing has been around since at least BC.


"PuGging was never very frequent" != "PuGging never happened"

Trade PuGging for Heroics happened in BC, though in my experience it was only to fill a spot or two (usually, like you said, a Mage). Raids were rarely if ever pugged, until you got to the very end of the expansion and people did very poor jobs of trying to run T5 raids.

Contrast that to the WotLK environment where PuG's were the name of the game. People "led" raids by inviting 10 random people (5 DK's, sounds great!) and hoping they just magically made it through whatever they were aiming for.
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100 Troll Druid
16550
12/17/2010 2:39 AMPosted by Killaelmoo

so youre saying the day wotlk came out you facerolled the heroics? u walk in chain just healed it blindfolded idk when u started but when i played wotlk for the first time the dungeons were actually hard there wasnt any 10 min run see people like you are talking about when wratrh became a jke when everything wa sgiven to us to let everyone see lich king which helped everyone see the end game content. and if it was so easy why didnt everyone have heroic lk downed? even with 30% buff so before you say wrath was easy think about before the lfd tool(and where is your heroic lk kill since wrath was so easy?)
The day of? No, it took me almost two weeks to hit 80 if I recall... when did Wrath come out? That evening (Nov 27) we ran Violet Hold and Occulis back to back, 28th was a Friday and I only fit in Heroic Straholm late at night, then Saturday the 29th we plowed through Heroic Utgarde Pinacle, Nexus, Azjol-Nerub, and Old Kingdom in about 45 minutes each.

As far as my H LK kill is concerned, after we downed LK, which was the first decently hard fight we'd come across since Yogg, we considered ourselves more or less done with ICC and basically stopped running it. I was running ICC at the time in a 10-man-only group consisting of my dad, two brothers, and some personal friends of ours, so when we got that group screenshot and finished sharding the loot our desire to go back and try hard modes was pretty lacklustre. We went and worked on Ulduar hards, but two of our raid members had to leave on a work placement thing for almost two months basically the raid before we could pin down One Light and we just never got back to raiding once they got back.

Now, to answer your more general question: why doesn't everyone have a HLK kill if Wrath was easy, that's simple: I'm not talking about Wrath as a whole, I'm talking about Heroic instances. Now, on Wrath as a whole Naxx was a joke for difficulty with not a single fight you felt you needed to actually learn, just a bunch you needed to not screw up, The Eye was a decent challenge but most of the skill gate from having to master stupid vehicle mechanics at the end of the fight, Obsidium Sanctum was a decently tuned fight for 80 with a nice granular difficulty mechanic, Ulduar was by and large excellent with a nice learning curve and granular difficulty settings, ToC was a joke aside from the Champions (which like most PvP-in-PvE fights was crippled by "what did we get" more than trying to master the fight), and ICC had a couple challenging fights scattered among a few gear-checks and stupid-checks.

Wrath didn't do everything wrong, but it definitely fk'd up the leveling->Normals->Heroics->Raids transition (hint: there wasn't one.)
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
12/17/2010 3:04 AMPosted by Nidosa

You don't remember the trade chat spam LF 1 more mage daily heroic PST?
... PuGing has been around since at least BC.


"PuGging was never very frequent" != "PuGging never happened"

Trade PuGging for Heroics happened in BC, though in my experience it was only to fill a spot or two (usually, like you said, a Mage). Raids were rarely if ever pugged, until you got to the very end of the expansion and people did very poor jobs of trying to run T5 raids.

Contrast that to the WotLK environment where PuG's were the name of the game. People "led" raids by inviting 10 random people (5 DK's, sounds great!) and hoping they just magically made it through whatever they were aiming for.


wotlk it seems was aimed at the casual players in some ports by letting more people see endgame sure u could pug icc but on my realm you didnt get past 4/12 no pugs down lich kings or even did heroics besides lootship and vampire lady no pug did heroic sindragosa
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
12/17/2010 3:06 AMPosted by Krystle

so youre saying the day wotlk came out you facerolled the heroics? u walk in chain just healed it blindfolded idk when u started but when i played wotlk for the first time the dungeons were actually hard there wasnt any 10 min run see people like you are talking about when wratrh became a jke when everything wa sgiven to us to let everyone see lich king which helped everyone see the end game content. and if it was so easy why didnt everyone have heroic lk downed? even with 30% buff so before you say wrath was easy think about before the lfd tool(and where is your heroic lk kill since wrath was so easy?)
The day of? No, it took me almost two weeks to hit 80 if I recall... when did Wrath come out? That evening (Nov 27) we ran Violet Hold and Occulis back to back, 28th was a Friday and I only fit in Heroic Straholm late at night, then Saturday the 29th we plowed through Heroic Utgarde Pinacle, Nexus, Azjol-Nerub, and Old Kingdom in about 45 minutes each.

As far as my H LK kill is concerned, after we downed LK, which was the first decently hard fight we'd come across since Yogg, we considered ourselves more or less done with ICC and basically stopped running it. I was running ICC at the time in a 10-man-only group consisting of my dad, two brothers, and some personal friends of ours, so when we got that group screenshot and finished sharding the loot our desire to go back and try hard modes was pretty lacklustre. We went and worked on Ulduar hards, but two of our raid members had to leave on a work placement thing for almost two months basically the raid before we could pin down One Light and we just never got back to raiding once they got back.

Now, to answer your more general question: why doesn't everyone have a HLK kill if Wrath was easy, that's simple: I'm not talking about Wrath as a whole, I'm talking about Heroic instances. Now, on Wrath as a whole Naxx was a joke for difficulty with not a single fight you felt you needed to actually learn, just a bunch you needed to not screw up, The Eye was a decent challenge but most of the skill gate from having to master stupid vehicle mechanics at the end of the fight, Obsidium Sanctum was a decently tuned fight for 80 with a nice granular difficulty mechanic, Ulduar was by and large excellent with a nice learning curve and granular difficulty settings, ToC was a joke aside from the Champions (which like most PvP-in-PvE fights was crippled by "what did we get" more than trying to master the fight), and ICC had a couple challenging fights scattered among a few gear-checks and stupid-checks.

Wrath didn't do everything wrong, but it definitely fk'd up the leveling->Normals->Heroics->Raids transition (hint: there wasn't one.)


heroics weres not faceroll easy you couldnt take *#!%ty tank in blues and a *#!%ty healer sin blues and roll through all good it was plent times where you had to LoS mobs and watch out u could just run in pull like 6 mobs and expect to live sure u didnt have to cc at all cept in icc during vampire wing those stupid blood rogues but it if u put cata healing healing mechanic in it from bc people wouldve been complaining too the healing just isnt fun its just boring wrath healing was sometimes boring but cata healing is just fall asleep boring during wrath i didnt have to stare at the my mana or tank health i would actually play around but if i try that here tank dies and i have to go oom to try and fix thats not fun nor hard its a chore

ok take healing from cata and put it in wrath it just wouldnt work wrath
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85 Troll Rogue
2565
Healers didn't have much freedom in WotLK... Paladins... Beacon the tank HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT I'VE CASTED 200 HOLY LIGHTS AND I STILL HAVEN'T OOMED! Druids... HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT INNERVATE! FULL MANA! Shamans... CHAIN HEAL CHAIN HEAL CHAIN HEAL MANA TIDE TOTEM FULL MANA!. Priests... FLASH HEAL FLASH HEAL FLASH HEAL CIRCLE OF HEALING HYMN OF HOPE SHADOWFIEND FULL MANA! or BUBBLE FLASH HEAL BUBBLE FLASH HEAL BUBBLE FLASH HEAL PENANCE HYMN OF HOPE SHADOWFIEND FULL MANA! Yeah you had more spells then but guess what.... you never frickin used them, so in all reality you had LESS spells to work with. WotLK was a joke... Cataclysm made healing fun again.... My Paladin has like 9 healing spells I get to work with... My Priest.... like 7... and don't give me that BS about "Well you didn't play beginning of WotLK"... yes I did. Suck it up and L2P noob. Cause I know all of you are just QQing here about how you are bad at healing now. Healing is hard again.... What is fun about a game where you can take naps while playing it. Nothing. I repeat. L2P noob.
Edited by Laztokk on 12/17/2010 3:24 AM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
Healers didn't have much freedom in WotLK... Paladins... Beacon the tank HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT HOLY LIGHT I'VE CASTED 200 HOLY LIGHTS AND I STILL HAVEN'T OOMED! Druids... HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT HOT INNERVATE! FULL MANA! Shamans... CHAIN HEAL CHAIN HEAL CHAIN HEAL MANA TIDE TOTEM FULL MANA!. Priests... FLASH HEAL FLASH HEAL FLASH HEAL CIRCLE OF HEALING HYMN OF HOPE SHADOWFIEND FULL MANA! or BUBBLE FLASH HEAL BUBBLE FLASH HEAL BUBBLE FLASH HEAL PENANCE HYMN OF HOPE SHADOWFIEND FULL MANA! Yeah you had more spells then but guess what.... you never frickin used them, so in all reality you had LESS spells to work with. WotLK was a joke... Cataclysm made healing fun again.... My Paladin has like 9 healing spells I get to work with... My Priest.... like 7... and don't give me that BS about "Well you didn't play beginning of WotLK"... yes I did. Suck it up and L2P noob. Cause I know all of you are just QQing here about how you are bad at healing now. Healing is hard now.... What is fun about a game where you can take naps while playing it. Nothing. I repeat. L2P noob.
im still hotting as a druid now if u think this is fun well thats you but most people just think its uniform no difference among healers where inwrath there was a diff and you heal however you want and if u gon say l2p noob at least read before you say stupid crap
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100 Troll Druid
16550
12/17/2010 2:52 AMPosted by Robnwilliams

You are quite incorrect. In wrath, rejuv could be used as a strong single target heal or a damage buffer. Early on regrowth was good for small pocket healing when wild growth wasn't enough. Lifebloom and nourish both had their place in tank healing. Swiftmend was quite effective with blanketed rejuvs on players who would take a little extra (or had less overall health) and also burst tank healing. Frankly I guess we're just going to have differing opinions, but wrath spells certainly held much more versatility. Sure, if you were going through content you outgeared you didn't have to be the most efficient. All it has come down to now is if this then that.
What if I used LB instead of Regrowth or Rejuve to heal a damaged raid member? Did it matter? What if I cast 4 Rejuves or 4 Lifeblooms instead of one Wild Growth? What if I cast four Regrowths instead of four Nourishes? What if I cast Regrowth instead of Lifebloom or Wild Growth instead of Rejuve?

Sure, you could evaluate the spells and determine which would be bestest for a situation, but the practical answer was that spell choice meant very, very little. What did matter was target choice. The practical difference between a Rejuve/SM and a Regrowth was nil, either I saved the target or I didn't, because the state of other players was pretty solidly either healthy or dying. Even on a fight like Firefighter, which is easily my favorite fight in Wrath, I would say that spell choice doesn't matter. Personal taste at best, just make sure you're hitting WG on cooldown. Beyond that it's reaction time, use whatever spell suits your flow and keeps people alive. That's it. You like jumping around like a maniac? LB or Rejuve or both. You like finding a stable position? Nourish or Regrowth. Depending on how attentive people are you might need to chain a direct heal on someone if you get caught with SM on cooldown.

Wrath spells: HoTs, Cooldowns, and those spells you use when your cooldowns aren't up.
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85 Troll Rogue
2565
Druids... Druids... Druids...
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
12/17/2010 3:29 AMPosted by Krystle

You are quite incorrect. In wrath, rejuv could be used as a strong single target heal or a damage buffer. Early on regrowth was good for small pocket healing when wild growth wasn't enough. Lifebloom and nourish both had their place in tank healing. Swiftmend was quite effective with blanketed rejuvs on players who would take a little extra (or had less overall health) and also burst tank healing. Frankly I guess we're just going to have differing opinions, but wrath spells certainly held much more versatility. Sure, if you were going through content you outgeared you didn't have to be the most efficient. All it has come down to now is if this then that.
What if I used LB instead of Regrowth or Rejuve to heal a damaged raid member? Did it matter? What if I cast 4 Rejuves or 4 Lifeblooms instead of one Wild Growth? What if I cast four Regrowths instead of four Nourishes? What if I cast Regrowth instead of Lifebloom or Wild Growth instead of Rejuve?

Sure, you could evaluate the spells and determine which would be bestest for a situation, but the practical answer was that spell choice meant very, very little. What did matter was target choice. The practical difference between a Rejuve/SM and a Regrowth was nil, either I saved the target or I didn't, because the state of other players was pretty solidly either healthy or dying. Even on a fight like Firefighter, which is easily my favorite fight in Wrath, I would say that spell choice doesn't matter. Personal taste at best, just make sure you're hitting WG on cooldown. Beyond that it's reaction time, use whatever spell suits your flow and keeps people alive. That's it. You like jumping around like a maniac? LB or Rejuve or both. You like finding a stable position? Nourish or Regrowth. Depending on how attentive people are you might need to chain a direct heal on someone if you get caught with SM on cooldown.

Wrath spells: HoTs, Cooldowns, and those spells you use when your cooldowns aren't up.


Cata spells: gen aoe spell, tank heal, and oh crap heals
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85 Troll Rogue
2565
It has all come down to mana efficiency.... What is the fun in healing if all you're gonna do is stand in the back and cast your biggest heal over and over and over and over and never go oom? Where is the skill? The only skill involved in that is like what Krystle said.... target choice.... and when you play that way there really is now debating over target choice... OH HE'S LOW HEALTH! I BETTER HEAL HIM! Now you have to strategically chose who would be the best person to heal...in little time.... Maybe an RDPS over a MDPS or vice versa... Obviously Tank/Healer over a DPS.... And like I was saying mana efficiency.... Casting your biggest heal 200 times per fight isn't fun.... all you do is stand in the back and push buttons. The reason why they changed the way you heal is cause they DIDN'T wan't you to do that... cause it's NOT fun.
As I said earlier.... L2P noob.
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85 Troll Rogue
2565
And if you don't oom in 5 big heals then you need a nerf... badly...
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85 Troll Rogue
2565
Ok then yeah, goodbye DPS that stood in the puddle one second too long... He shouldn't have been in there anyway. Good bye wide variety of useless spells, I'm content with the like 9 spells I'm currently using.
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
12/17/2010 3:48 AMPosted by Laztokk
Ok then yeah, goodbye DPS that stood in the puddle one second too long... He shouldn't have been in there anyway. Good bye wide variety of useless spells, I'm content with the like 9 spells I'm currently using.


im curous what 9 spells are u casting constantly cuz on my druid i have 3 spellstopping my healing and they are lifebloom nourish & swiftmend
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90 Tauren Druid
5025
12/17/2010 3:39 AMPosted by Laztokk
It has all come down to mana efficiency.... What is the fun in healing if all you're gonna do is stand in the back and cast your biggest heal over and over and over and over and never go oom? Where is the skill? The only skill involved in that is like what Krystle said.... target choice.... and when you play that way there really is now debating over target choice... OH HE'S LOW HEALTH! I BETTER HEAL HIM! Now you have to strategically chose who would be the best person to heal...in little time.... Maybe an RDPS over a MDPS or vice versa... Obviously Tank/Healer over a DPS.... And like I was saying mana efficiency.... Casting your biggest heal 200 times per fight isn't fun.... all you do is stand in the back and push buttons. The reason why they changed the way you heal is cause they DIDN'T wan't you to do that... cause it's NOT fun.
As I said earlier.... L2P noob.


NO ONE CASTS ONE HEALING SPELL IN ONE ENCOUNTER IF YOU DID THIS YOU ARE A IDIOT AND YOU WOULDVE FAILED HARD IN ANY RAID UNLESS YOU WERE BEING CARRIED YOUR INFO IS JUST WRONG
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