Re: Tol Barad and you

100 Orc Warlock
10775
http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/12/17/the-problems-with-tol-barad-and-how-to-fix-them/

read the article, and understand it. Tol Barad is a mountain of fail. Winning on D is so absurdly easy that the only time the Offense is going to win is when the Defense is so monumentally bad they cant even figure out that they only have to zerg around and keep ONE node half-capped to achieve victory. Given two equally matched groups and assuming that in all but 3-4 cases so far, stupidity has been at normal levels on both sides, its a simple game-mechanical impossibility to successfully attack the place.

Then also understand one more thing:

This dumb thing you do by leaving the raid after you get an HK? It isn't doing anything.

five times yesterday i did the following simple test - during the battle, do a /who tol Barad.

if you have one available, do a /who Tol Barad on the alliance side. Provided the number of people in the zone is below the 49 person cap on results for /who, you will notice that they are exactly the same at all times.

All but one time, the number of people in the zone never broke the 49 person cap - and all four of those times, the number was exactly even for the entire battle, regardless of this "leave the raid after an HK" myth.

So just stop.
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100 Orc Death Knight
9130
Thats because most of the Horde has given up. You see, when the BG first came out, and the Alliance held it for such a long period of time, the good Horde PvP'rs pretty much stopped caring.

I for one, rarely venture to TB. If I get my try once a week, I honestly could not care less whether we have TB. It does absolutely nothing for me. The 25 minutes of sheer idiocy grants me close to 100 less honor then ANY other BG would in the same span of time. Why would I ever go to TB?

You can think what you want of yourself, but theres a good reason that you will never see any of the Horde PvPr's in TB. Once I get the Defensive Achievements I plan to never, ever queue for that terrible excuse for a BG ever again.
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90 Draenei Paladin
10295
post on your main or stfu/gtfo

(because your argument carries no weight)
Edited by Zaryi on 12/19/2010 10:22 AM PST
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85 Human Death Knight
6610
I think I should point out that /who only goes up to 49 people.
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100 Orc Warlock
10775
and no less than four times yesterday, the battle never got bigger than 30 people.

all four of those times, /who for both factions reported exactly equal numbers every 60 seconds.

"drop out of raid after an HK to cheat the 1:1" is a myth. It doesn't work. The zone just does a simple scan of the number of people in the zone, and that's all there is to it.

Honestly, the only reason i was even in the place 5 times yesterday was to gather evidence for that. I only go there when i happen to be doing my dalies on TBP and the battle starts while im there.

Aestu: this isn't in regards solely to BH. I have a number of IRL friends who are extremely serious PvP'ers in BG9 (they transfered there for better competition back when that was the thing to do - ill try to get links to their armories, i dont remember their characters names anymore, but it might take a day or three) and its the same there. Theyve had 100v100 p itched battles.... and it plays out no differently. There are still more than 50 servers where the BG has never changed hands a single time (worldwide, not just NA)

It isn't *just* the people, it's the way the zone is rigged, plain and simple.

Now, on BH, are the people a factor? Hell yes, never said otherwise. I might point out though, that of all the TB battles ive been in (except one), i have yet to see more than one or two members of ANY of the organized horde PvP guilds, and the only time i saw a large presence from them, we won the battle handily (to be fair, it was noon a work/school day, so the allies on were not up to their usual standards of organization, but neither were they as bad as the random Horde pugers seem to be).

And, i will admit, the desire to go to the zone, even when i know i will lose, is drastically reduced by giving the losers nothing but a paltry 50 honor. The guy in the link i posted nailed it dead on.
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85 Human Death Knight
6610
So what you're saying is that on most servers, TB never changes hands, but on Bleeding Hollow its not a design flaw, the people are just awful?


The zone is rigged yes, but since the blues only come to realm forums to delete threads, you should be posting this elsewhere.

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100 Orc Warlock
10775
12/19/2010 12:35 PMPosted by Usdk
So what you're saying is that on most servers, TB never changes hands, but on Bleeding Hollow its not a design flaw, the people are just awful?


Actually, no; i mentioned that on *some* servers it never changes hands (about 50, worldwide, which is not even close to most) as a point about how badly designed it is.

Aestu blamed the players, and I said that i felt that he was at least a little right - but it isn't JUST the players. But bad players certainly don't help.

Inherent design flaw is inherent, though. Given two teams of identical skill, defense can only lose if they get up and walk away from their keyboards or deliberately threw the game.

The reason i posted this here is because of the people i constantly see *@@*@ing about it; i've discussed this in the PvP forums as well, but i was tired of the myths taking root - particularly the out-of-raid-after-an-HK thing.
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100 Orc Death Knight
9130
So let me see if this is right.

Because I didnt post on my main (which I dont because priests are god ugly (its Desecrate btw which I don't exactly hide but since sigs no longer work.. its tough not to)) my argument carries no weight?

How full of yourself are you? For someone who has told everyone that you are terrible at PvP you seem to have a HUGE ego now that you win Tol Barad. Yes, no one ever queues for Tol Barad. /who any of the Horde PvP guilds and you will never see a large percentage of them in TB. On the other hand you will see TONS of Volume, DU etc all the time in there.

Once again, you can lie to yourself all you want but the "weaker" Horde are not THAT weak that you would dominate 24/7 unless no one good was trying it.

But hey you want concrete examples?

We Are The End - FOUR people queuing.
Milfs and Illadephs - TWO people
Intolerance - TWO people
Drunk PvP - FOUR people.

What more evidence do you need? Or do you just feel like ignoring pure logic to server your own means?


@Aestu - You can call it what you want, I am not going to join a BG that for the first two days I lost on cooldown. There is zero reason for me too. With that very easy, basic logic there is zero reason most of the other PvPr's are going to be queuing either.

If you think otherwise, maybe you should re-examine your premises and really see what the goal of your argument is. If its solely to prove to everyone else (or yourself) that you are so great at PvP.. maybe you are going about this the wrong way.
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92 Worgen Rogue
11265
12/19/2010 5:45 PMPosted by Bankaltwhat
BG9 is not serious business; mentioning it is cliche and hyperbole.



Break 1500 before you comment on any thing PvP related. Oh, and stop being a S key hero.


Oh, and stop being a S key hero.


being a S key


a S
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1 Human Warlock
0
So the logic behind horde not winning TB is that nobody good queues for it, but for some reason, all the "good" people on alliance decide that they want to queue? For such a large sample group, I highly doubt that the factor keeping the good people from wanting to queue for TB would skew that much for the Horde, and somehow not exist for the Alliance.

Of course, what could explain it is the lack of good players on Horde, and the larger pool of good players on Alliance. Any stupid excuse you make about "good players on Horde don't want to queue for TB" is null and about as worthless of an excuse as the original horde excuse of, "more people on alliance are in TB, horde just has less people queue."
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92 Worgen Rogue
11265
12/19/2010 6:36 PMPosted by Buzzbomb

Yes, no one ever queues for Tol Barad. /who any of the Horde PvP guilds and you will never see a large percentage of them in TB. On the other hand you will see TONS of Volume, DU etc all the time in there.

Once again, you can lie to yourself all you want but the "weaker" Horde are not THAT weak that you would dominate 24/7 unless no one good was trying it.

But hey you want concrete examples?

We Are The End - FOUR people queuing.
Milfs and Illadephs - TWO people
Intolerance - TWO people
Drunk PvP - FOUR people.

What more evidence do you need? Or do you just feel like ignoring pure logic to server your own means?
@


Your estimation of what you just wrote is pure logic?

Assumptions aren't logic.

First, people in Drunk PvP are terrible, second, just cause someone is not in one of the four horde guilds you mentioned, doesn't mean they are bad, nor does it mean someone in DU or Volume, is good.


Like me! I'm a really bad PvP rogue!
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100 Undead Warrior
13440
I've done Tol Barad once. We were on offense, and we won. I'd like to think it's because of how awesome I am, but that's obviously not the case and even I can't pretend to love myself that much.

The problem is one of incentive. As most of the Horde players who know what they're talking about have said, our PvP guilds (and players, independent of guilds) just don't queue for Tol Barad because there's little to be gained from it. I don't think sweeping generalizations of a "weaker" Horde playerbase are warranted when the Alliance regularly enters with organization (guild runs, etc) and intent to unlock the raid, competing with those curious enough to try Tol Barad once and subsequently never queue again. To my knowledge, Horde has one remaining PvE guild, compared to the Alliance's half-dozen; PvPers have no reason to try to raid Argaloth because most realized immediately that Conquest point gains are so high even at low ratings that they'd never have to raid for gear again, relegating Argaloth to a T11 farmfest.

I'm in a channel with a decent portion of the Horde's strongest PvPers, and none of them enter Tol Barad on cooldown. These are players (admittedly: many are mages) that would flawless basically all the Alliance in this thread save USD.

PS: He already said it himself, but Tanglez is Desecrate and is more than qualified to post regarding PvP.
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