World of Warcraft®

12/19/2010 11:35 PMPosted by Kektonic

Corborus is probably the hardest boss of any Cata heroic, at least from my experience. Seriously, I've completed numerous heroics in PuGs, half PuGs, guild runs, etc.

You've got to be kidding. Corborus isn't even the hardest boss in Stonecore let alone the entirety of the available heroics.

He's a pretty big pain in the ass without any suitable ranged aoe.

So way to go for being lucky but apparently you're in the minority.

^^ This.

It's pretty clear from QQ on the forums, that the problems for casuals is mainly the PUGs.

Pugged one earlier today. I disagree with your statement by virtue of contradictory evidence.

12/20/2010 12:25 AMPosted by Dilana

^^

For every successful person who managed to have a good pug group that didn't fall apart at a heartbeat, there are fifty other complaints.

So way to go for being lucky but apparently you're in the minority.

I've had more successful pugs than not. and pugs are getting better by the day. Honestly, if I'm with a tank that knows the fights, we'll clear the instance no problem. If the tank is a noob, then it's probably gonna fail.

Try pugging with a friend or two. Playing with people you know often makes runs go much smoother even if it's not a full guild run. I'm usually with 1-2 other guildmates, but I have pugged by myself and have had as many successful runs as not.

Honestly, if I'm with a tank that knows the fights, we'll clear the instance no problem. If the tank is a noob, then it's probably gonna fail.

I could say exactly the same about healers and dps.

-Too bad your ranged dps dies on the first burrow phase on Corborus.
-Too bad you're in a group with 10k dps mage, 10k dps hunter and 13k dps dk and your healer fails to heal more than 5k hps (25% overhealing) and dispell Nemesis Strike on Anraphet (even checked Damage Taken after the fight, the group took 0 avoidable damage).
-Too bad some retard dispells/purges Elementium Bulwark from Ozruk, even if politely asked not to.
-Too bad I get kicked out of group because I can't explain all the elements of the boss fight in a single line.

You can't carry a group no matter what your role is in the dungeon.

fake edit: all my cata dungeon achievements were pugged via LFD so, please, spare the sermon how it is possible to get it done. I know it can be done.

I have pugged every single heroic so far (by which I mean I haven't done any guild runs, not that I've done all heroics... dern gb), and so far I've done quite a few. I've had one group fall apart. One. We had a bad tank and the dps were fed up and left.

Heroics are puggable. I run into not awesome but not terrible players most of the time. They're hardly good enough to get by, to be honest. Yet we always finish.

They're not puggable if you lack perseverance.

(also, lol at scrâpe being censored)

I am definately a hardcore player. Just going to preface that before I get started so nobody *points it out* trying to be insightful after an armory query to make a counter point.

A lot of the people I group with play a significant amount too as they are obviously lvl 85 and are running heroic dungeons 2 weeks post launch (been about 2 weeks). I find heroics to be appropriately attuned if you responding to the boss mechanics appropriately. If you are not- the heroics are designed to punish you with basically instant death or severely so that the chances of a wipe are much larger.

You can no longer stand in stuff that is bad to stand in. You couldn't in Vanilla and you couldn't in Burning Crusade. The majority of the game was like this and I know it was because I have played since like...2 weeks post launch. WOTLK was set-up so that you could literally ignore most of the dungeon boss mechanics and it would make the fight harder in many cases, but not impossible- and that was before everyone was in epics. You have to understand how a boss functions (why am I dying).

Nobody in the group can carry anymore. That's excellent. Your healer is dependent on DPS having appropriate DPS uptime on trash/adds/boss so that the fight does't drag on. They are dependent on appropriate use of CC (which a ton of classes have now). They are dependent on DPS not standing in the fire and tanks understanding how to use their cooldowns. DPS and tank are dependent on healers that know how to vary usage of heals so that they do not OOM halfway through a fight.

Sometimes I wipe in heroics or don't complete the whole dungeon. It usually because someone is massively under-geared and not playing properly. Occasionally I make mistakes and get 1 shot by dumb stuff. That doesn't mean the fight is too hard, it means I need to play better and move sooner. It is o.k. that Corroborus burrow can kill you instantly. It is telegraphed. You see it-- move away immediately--- nothing is more important in that phase. Nobody is going to die from those little adds that pop up if the tank is just gradually picking them up or if people are using slows/snares (every group has someone with slows/snares etc...) If you die to burrow you didn't move fast enough and failed. Move faster.

The random dungeon finder is an expediency tool. It is not designed to automatically put together a group entitled of clearing the dungeon content. Some people think it is and they are mistaken. It is a tool. It is there to make finding a group easier. Content should not be tuned around the existence of the random dungeon finder, or around people who ignore boss mechanics or wont gear/spec/play properly and push their inadequacies on other people.

I'm not in a guild, I've done nothing but pug heroics. It's alot more managable though being the tank, because alot of the weight can be put on my shoulders. I don't have to rely on someone else tanking. I do have to rely on the healer though. I've cleared just about every heroic I queued up for, except a few because the players were so bad, but i've never had issues for the vast majority of the time. People CC what I tell them to, and listen to instructions for boss fights. I've had my fair share of wipes due to things I have no control over (like someone not moving from rocks on last boss in H Stonecore), but for the most part things are manageable.

12/20/2010 6:13 AMPosted by Blanq

It's pretty clear from QQ on the forums, that the problems for casuals is mainly the PUGs.

The huge design fail of this expansion was the assumption that everyone could be herded into functional and useful guilds.

The flaw with this expansion is with the player base, not with the heroics or the guild system. Cataclysm heroics are fine. It's the player base that is bad.

5 terrible players won't do any better just because they share a guild tag.

12/20/2010 6:20 AMPosted by Blanq

The flaw with this expansion is with the player base, not with the heroics. Cataclysm heroics are fine. It's the player base that is bad.

Game designers are never allowed to blame their customers for their design failures. Never.

If the game design would have worked had the players been other than what they are, the fault lies with the designer -- he did not understand his target audience.

No, they understood the audience perfectly. The problem is simply that bad players aren't the target audience. They already had an entire expansion targeting terrible players. Cataclysm is targeted at good players, or bad players looking to improve. If you don't fall in to one of those groups, oh well, it's not a "problem" that they aren't ruining this expansion too to accommodate you.

Actually, there is content for you too. If heroics bother you so much, why don't you just stick to normals?

12/20/2010 6:26 AMPosted by Riddance

Maybe you shouldn't be doing heroics if you're bad.

Didn't read much of the thread did you?

Heroics are puggable.
if:
you have plenty of gold
you know your roles
you have 2-4 hours to waste
you don't mind getting shafted with loot or reward to time spent
you don't mind the scribe taking the chaos orb
you are ok with skipping bosses
you like wiping on trash

12/20/2010 7:10 AMPosted by Pertinacious

Heroics are puggable.
if:
you have plenty of gold
you know your roles
you have 2-4 hours to waste
you don't mind getting shafted with loot or reward to time spent
you don't mind the scribe taking the chaos orb
you are ok with skipping bosses
you like wiping on trash

Most of those caveats are pretty lame.

"Well heroics are only PUGable if you don't mind not winning any loot!"

Seriously?

Its mindless ranting not serious discussion,i'm just following the trends of the forums - find something that can be complained about no matter how frivolous and do it.