World of Warcraft®

Every single one of my heroic clears has been a pug. Yes, there are some terribad ones out there, but that is life.


Not one guild run was a first clear for me. Am i just lucky?

12/20/2010 11:18 AMPosted by Snowfox

I cannot comprehend the lack of understanding that would prompt this question.

If they've been pugged, then they are puggable.

I've now pugged SFK and I'm happy.

As a healer, if I join a group with 3 warriors, I'll leave the dungeon but not leave the group.

After a while of searching the auction house, the group will get annoyed that I'm "afk", and /kick me. Since I was kicked, I won't have a deserter buff and can get another insta-pop queue to heal a group with CC abilities.

As a healer, it's important to find a group with good useful cc abilities, otherwise it's a waste of time and energy.

I do feel bad, though, about those 3 warriors that have to wait another 45 mins for another healer to be dumb (badass) enough to carry them through a heroic with no CC ability to speak of.

Cata heroics will be remembered fondly for being a fresh challenge for the 5 player game. WotLK heroics' legacy has already been established, and it is already becoming obvious that history will not remember such easy, trivial, boring dungeons kindly.

Bad groups or even good players with bad group synergy happens, learn to take your lumps. These dungeons need to last us around 2 years, and they will only get easier as people learn the strats and get better gear. The LFD is fine, good players know how to take a few wipes in stride and learn from them. Yes, catastrophically bad groups happen from time to time. That is part of what it means to play an MMO.

One of the things I pointed out in another thread that got deleted because one idiot got overly offensive.

Normal dungeons go nowhere, it would take about 3 months of grinding normal dungeons to do what you could do in 3 days of grinding heroics were they easier.

In 3 months heroics will be easier.

So why take 3 months grinding normals when waiting 3 months you can do it in 3 days?

you are essentially getting the same reward by doing nothing as working hard...

this makes no sense... logical error on bliz's part.

12/20/2010 11:18 AMPosted by Snowfox

I cannot comprehend the lack of understanding that would prompt this question.

If they've been pugged, then they are puggable.

Possible? Yes.

Practical? Not really.

Not skip progression, but sometimes the grind is too long like normals.

70jp a day is a joke. A bad joke. Thats not progress, thats going backwards while looking forwards. It basically is so little all it does is allow hardcores to point to normals and say thats progress, but its really not.

it would take about 3 months of grinding normals to get enough jp's to buy just 3 peices of gear if you didnt save any.

In 3 months heroics will be easy

Therefore the most sensible alternative to wait rather than grind heroics.

No. We cannot agree. They are quite puggable if people aren't retarted.

12/20/2010 12:30 PMPosted by Snowfox

Possible? Yes.

Practical? Not really.

Just because people grab a few blues and jump into heroic /LFD - doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game.

It just means players are trying to skip progression.

I think those players mostly don't believe they are skipping progression. They simply see the ability to queue up(meeting the blizz set ilvl requirement) as the games endorsement that this is what they should be doing. If they fail, it logically follows that blizz made it too hard for the people that are supposed to be there, since they see meeting the ilvl requirement as meaning they are supposed to be there.

Just because people grab a few blues and jump into heroic /LFD - doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game.

It just means players are trying to skip progression.

I think those players mostly don't believe they are skipping progression. They simply see the ability to queue up(meeting the blizz set ilvl requirement) as the games endorsement that this is what they should be doing. If they fail, it logically follows that blizz made it too hard for the people that are supposed to be there, since they see meeting the ilvl requirement as meaning they are supposed to be there.

Honestly? Just bump up the item level for Heroics. Make it so that people actually have to be higher then 329, which is where most seem to be after leveling. Don't making jumping into Heroics such a beginners trap, especially with Wrath mentality still highly present in the community.

12/20/2010 1:17 PMPosted by Liuv

Honestly? Just bump up the item level for Heroics. Make it so that people actually have to be higher then 329, which is where most seem to be after leveling. Don't making jumping into Heroics such a beginners trap, especially with Wrath mentality still highly present in the community

It really runs into the issue of locking out people who can run heroics with low gear(low, not inappropriate) from getting the random bonus. There's certainly a subset of the playerbase that is more than capable of succeeding with ilvl 329 average, and it's not an overly onerous requirement to obtain for those folks. I think they want to avoid locking people out from doing stuff they can do, for the simple sake of too much hand holding. 329 is a good start number, which you individually adjust up based on skill, but if blizz is picking a number, it's gonna be a bit arbitrary no matter what they pick.

Going by all the people i see wearing half DPS and half healing gear with wrong specs and no gems that do under 3k DPS by your logic the game should be designed for the mentally handicapped with a gameplay similar to something made by fisher price

Don't worry, his argument boils down to "the customer is always right", which boils down to bull honkey.

12/20/2010 12:30 PMPosted by Snowfox

I cannot comprehend the lack of understanding that would prompt this question.

If they've been pugged, then they are puggable.

12/20/2010 1:09 PMPosted by Thunnaz

Just because people grab a few blues and jump into heroic /LFD - doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the game.

It just means players are trying to skip progression.

Neither of these statements are necessarily true.

In technical terms, your first statement is true, but in practice you can't really say this, a friend and I have done a combined total of about 20 heroics. We haven't completed a single one.

This is not a player or gear issue either because we ask if we are doing things wrong when we wipe every time we wipe, and generally we get no responses about it. Either people are too kind to call us out (very unlikely in a PuG) or everybody we group with feels like we are not the issue when we wipe.

As to the second one. I have 2 pieces of gear that are not at least 333, one is a 318 relic, and one is a 325 trinket, that is an excellent trinket in my opinion and the best trinket I have.

I am in no way trying to "Skip progression" but all I can do is farm rep since I can't run heroics for gear. This is not only time consuming, but boring as hell. I have 3 dungeons I can farm rep in, and Daily quests.

Is this the progression people are Skipping? I don't blame them! Especially those with time constraints. Who wants to spend 1/2 of your playtime on a given night farming rep through the same quests and 3 dungeons.

At least when people spammed heroics they had a larger variety than 3 dungeons and they were actually getting somewhere.

Edit: Because I forgot some words and it didn't make sense >.<

12/20/2010 1:31 PMPosted by Snowfox

I think those players mostly don't believe they are skipping progression. They simply see the ability to queue up(meeting the blizz set ilvl requirement) as the games endorsement that this is what they should be doing. If they fail, it logically follows that blizz made it too hard for the people that are supposed to be there, since they see meeting the ilvl requirement as meaning they are supposed to be there.

That is actually an excellent point.

I do think that if /LFD has restrictions based on level/attunement, it isn't entirely unreasonable to have them do a gear check as well.

Darned if you do, darned if you don't. =) Ya, it's not unreasonable to have a gear check, but any check passed is gonna be seen as this is ok to do by anyone who passes, whether they should or not. No ilvl number is gonna work for everyone. As such, it's likely to simply be best as is, no fix is really gonna make anything better. Basically, the best advice is just accept it, as time will only make it better, not worse.

This is not a player or gear issue either because we ask if we are doing things wrong when we wipe every time we wipe, and generally we get no responses about. Either people are too kind to call us out (very unlikely in a PuG) or everybody we group with feels like we are not the issue when we wipe.

So, either there's a serious lack in communication, something that would certainly help you progress through these heroics, or they are undergeared/unknowledged about what went wrong. I wouldn't expect success either if I was unlucky enough to be grouped with undergeared folks, or folks who simply have no idea what's going on(let's kill the purple trogg next to the tank). It still sounds to me like a combination of gear and knowledge, an increase in gear allowing you to get away with the group not understanding everything going on, or an increase in knowledge allowing you to avoid the stuff wiping you.

Edit: To be helpful, post a specific and i'd be happy to help out. I've managed to pug my way through most of the new heroics, and completed them all in guild groups as well.