You think cata is hard?

Community Manager

Those changes to player security were ALL made AFTER EQ came out and people started to flock to it and not UO. Why is that? Because EQ was easier than UO. Much like WoW is easier than EQ.


I started playing World of Warcraft because it's fun, not because I thought it was easy. For me, there is a significant difference between those two concepts. While the kind of fun that I have has changed and evolved over time as I play new classes and new content, I still really enjoy it. Some of the changes have required some adjustment, of course, but for me, that adds novelty.

Right now, there's a lot of push-me pull-you going on regarding Heroic Dungeon difficulty; some worry that instances are too difficult, while others fear that they'll be nerfed into mindlessness. It's my opinion that these opposing stances might be a bit premature because Cataclysm is still very, very new. I rather expect that dungeons will get easier. Not necessarily because they'll be altered, but because the tactics required to win will become common knowledge and the overall gear level of the players queuing will improve over time. For those fearing that the challenge will evaporate, raiding will, hopefully, prove to be a significant hurdle. Naturally, it's probable that those encounters will also seem relatively "easy" once players are fully geared and know the tactics backwards and forwards. By then, we hope to have new challenges ready.
Edited by Daxxarri on 12/17/2010 5:51 PM PST
90 Orc Warrior
9420
In reply to OP:

Yes, I am! =o


But no really, it's not hard, it's just now actually a video game rather than a snooze fest.
85 Tauren Warrior
1880
Daxxarri, you always know how to say the right words of wisdom. You are EPIC
85 Gnome Death Knight
2590
I remember when you could kill someone of any level, make a portal to the mountains on far side of the world (infested with hordes of fast-spawning high level yetis) and drag their corpse through it and dump it until their corpse rotted and all their gear was left for you to pick up, or just to watch them do hundreds of massive suicide runs to try and get to it before aforementioned occurred.

And they couldn't touch you because you were friends with two of the strongest griefing PKers on the server with about two years /played time each, and would one shot people with AOEs and had impenetrable shields.

And they had crystal balls so high-level players (you know, level 600 or so compared to the average level 100) could properly camp and grief you wherever you went.

Yes, I miss those days =( I can certainly understand why a lot of other players didn't stick around when something more forgiving came out though.
86 Dwarf Hunter
3155
I remember starting UO. I think I canceled after the first month.

Your gear deteriorated in real time, whether you were logged in or not. If you didn't log in for a few days you'd find your gear had disintegrated to useless junk.

Got killed in PvP? The guy that killed you would strip your body of gear and gold, leaving you to start over.
Since WoW is such an easy game, which it is. Why are there still bads?
19 Undead Priest
90
Daxxarri you didn't happen to play DragonRealms did you or Gemstones III.

Death was harsh in those MMUDs
Edited by Cameo on 12/17/2010 6:43 PM PST
85 Orc Rogue
2300
12/16/2010 11:12 PMPosted by Taudere
Or the really old days.

Your first step had you fall down the stairs killing you.

Your first step was on to a trap dropping a rock on you killing you.

Food was the body of whatever you killed.

Sometimes Demogorgon was in town, every time you went.

Sometimes you were starving and the food you ate killed you.

Sometimes a nymph stole your weapon.

You had no idea what everything you owned did.

When invading a castle decked out in your god killing kit some guard hit you with a rubber chicken killing you in one blow.


Really old days? Pssh, nethack is eternal.
90 Tauren Druid
7700
12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Remember before WoW, in real MMORPGs...

When you could starve to death if you didn't eat often enough?

Raid bosses patrolling through starter zones, destroying low levels?

When if you couldn't get to your corpse, it would decay along with all of your gear?

Looting gear from people you killed in PVP?

Camping a boss, because there were no instances, and having to call your guildmates at 3am to get on and raid it before another group pulled him?

Whoever got exp for a kill was who did the most damage to it. Tapping mobs? lol.

Having to find your own spells. Class trainers? lol.

Mounts? lol.

There were more than just Tank, DPS, and Healer. We had Tank, DPS, Healer, Puller, Debuffer, Buffer, and CC. Yea - puller was a job, and a damn fine sight to see a pro at it.

And you people are complaining about having to CC something, and maybe interrupt an ability every once in a while? Cmon.. this game is a cakewalk and you are embarrassing the gamer community.


and yet UO was a blast. until tram/fel split when they began to implement gear grinding like we see in every mmo since.

and losing your gear was a non issue because you could replace it with almost bis for about 3k gold which was about 4 min of farming low level mobs.

you could recall everywhere, that was awesome. ive always hated travel time in games, i dont log in to sit and stare at my screen.

but it doesnt sell, WoW sells. carebears will not log into a game where they can be pk'd and looted. and without carebears to prey upon the pk'ers wont play. you end up with a town full of 7xgm anti-pk chars sitting around waiting for non existant pk's to fight off.

86 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Remember before WoW, in real MMORPGs...

When you could starve to death if you didn't eat often enough?


Not hard, just unforgiving. And boring.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Raid bosses patrolling through starter zones, destroying low levels?


Difficulty where you have a slim chance of success is interesting. Difficulty where you have no chance of success is boring, perhaps even irritating.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
When if you couldn't get to your corpse, it would decay along with all of your gear?


Very harsh, but not necessarily challenging. It's not the kind of difficulty that people find interesting, which is why you don't see it any more.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Looting gear from people you killed in PVP?


Now that's awesome, but there need to be limits to how much of a setback that a player can get, or they'll just stop playing.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Camping a boss, because there were no instances, and having to call your guildmates at 3am to get on and raid it before another group pulled him?


Oh wow. Yeah, I prefer the new way better. Getting to the boss first is luck, not skill.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Whoever got exp for a kill was who did the most damage to it. Tapping mobs? lol.


I used to hate this. I'm so glad they got rid of it. Wasn't really hard, though. It was just a way to grief.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Having to find your own spells. Class trainers? lol.


Or how about the fact that some spells that would become useless in a few levels, simply because they didn't scale AT ALL? Yeah, WoW handles this much better.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
Mounts? lol.


Yeah, but in some text-based muds, travel could be instant anyways if you had a macro for the path. But mounts do make the distances more bearable. But still, that requires patience, not skill, unless you consider patience a skill.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
There were more than just Tank, DPS, and Healer. We had Tank, DPS, Healer, Puller, Debuffer, Buffer, and CC. Yea - puller was a job, and a damn fine sight to see a pro at it.


I'm glad to see some overlap now, though. But yeah, I do remember when pulling took skill, and you could cut a group in half if you just pulled the guy who was too far away to aggro his buddies. Now if you aggro one you aggro them all. Oh well.

12/16/2010 10:57 PMPosted by Halls
And you people are complaining about having to CC something, and maybe interrupt an ability every once in a while? Cmon.. this game is a cakewalk and you are embarrassing the gamer community.


It has a lot of convieniences, but heroics are a sometimes harsh and sometimes unforgiving test of your ability to think fast and respond to situations. Which is interesting. Dying and losing all of your stuff only sounds good on paper. The only thing that would make it okay is if the equipment was already easy come easy go.
Edited by Sheoulnoshi on 12/17/2010 6:58 PM PST
90 Troll Mage
17920
Losing experience and raid boss camping were the most fun I ever had in an mmo.

On of my favourite experiences was playing FFXI and boss camping. You had to know when the boss was last killed and the possible intervals that he would respawn. You had many, many guilds their fighting over the kill, trying to get aggro over the others. It took hours to kill that darn dragon. We had to pull shifts. I played a white mage at the time so my job was main tank healing.

I am having a lot of fun with WoW and will probably be here for years to come but that was the single best gaming experience I have ever had.

Edit: I quit around the time FFXI added mob tagging. It removed a huge part of the experience which was fighting over the boss.
Edited by Igornia on 12/17/2010 7:02 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10870
Looking for SoW in freeport, need to run back to Guk!
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10870


I have to say, I DO miss the random WTF uber mobs in low-level areas.

There was just something masochistically fun about being WTFpwned through the wall of an inn by a Gryphon 25 levels higher than you in a low-level zone. And then everyone is like "GRYPHON TO THE INN, RUNNNNN".

Hahahaha. And then you go to go back when you were a big boy and kill the hell out of that gryphon! Talk about satisfaction!


Oh man. So many nightmares about that stupid gryphon. Let's not forget that werewolf that ran around at night either. Or how many people had to run along the edge of that one zone at night to avoid the high level undead that spawned. Classic.

Or that general guy in the Overthere. Hahahahaha.


Ah, Grimfeather. Good times.

I remember my first week in EQ. Faydark. And the first time I zoned into Crushbone, and was promptly met by Ambassador D'vinn being trained to zone.

The epic, epic trains in Unrest, especially when hags could still mind control. HAGS TO ZONE! Oh crap, they mc'd me and I'm walking back to the basement with them aaaand.... yeah I'm going to need some help to get my corpse back.

My first time going down to the Froglok king in the live side of Guk.

The first week of Kunark, and the epic epic trains in Karnor's Castle. Venril Sathir to zone was always amusing!
85 Orc Shaman
8545
Cataclysm heroics aren't overly difficult either. So much of it comes down to players being able to handle basic mechanics of their classes - whether those mechanics are crowd control, interrupts, mana conservation, multi-target threat, or what have you. Personally, I think some of the "difficulty" that people are having with Cataclysm heroics is that since Wrath heroics were so easy (when the dreaded heroic is Halls of Stone because a required boss event takes 5 minutes, you know something's wrong), many pre-Wrath players had, say, their AoE threat or CC abilities atrophy; there was really no need for them and so any ability they had fell into disuse. Many of the players that rolled their first toon, or level capped for the first time during Wrath never had to learn the skill set.

On another note, certain Cataclysm heroic bosses are far less forgiving of individual mistakes - if you stand in Corborus's path in P2, you're going to die. It's a good mechanic, and one I like, but it hurts groups with players who can't do more than stare at their ability cooldowns tunneling their targets.
85 Troll Rogue
9015
12/17/2010 6:42 PMPosted by Cameo
Daxxarri you didn't happen to play DragonRealms did you or Gemstones III.

Death was harsh in those MMUDs


I played Gemstone III (and IV for that matter) and it sure was harsh. For a time, gear was dropped on death and thus easily lost. Experience used to be lost on death too, but changed to severely-reduced experience gain and absorption rates.

Heck, characters could even die a permanent death if they ran out of deeds (i.e. offerings to the gods). Imagine if perma-death was possible in WoW! rofl
Edited by Hoipolloi on 12/17/2010 7:19 PM PST
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