Druid's Nourish is really lacking

85 Worgen Druid
2980
The problem with Nourish is that it really really needs a hot in order to be effective. Not only does it get 20% baseline bonus with HoT, but also through our Mastery it needs a HoT. It ends up being 40% weaker without one.

Do other people's "efficient" heal only heal for 4k? (if so, I'll stop complaining)

This would be okay if our HoTs weren't made so, selective. If i have to spend 4k+ on a Rejuv, to be able to use Nourish, doesn't that defeat the purpose of having an efficient heal?

I just have a problem I guess with finding a decent way to heal one person, efficiently, that isn't the tank.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2860
They probably purposely did that to give you full effect on tanks, while punishing you for multi-healing with the wrong spells (i guess).

Kind of like Grace and Rapture for Discipline priests.

Or kinda similar, Chakra for Holy.
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85 Worgen Druid
10975
This is the main problem we have with raid healing. Our efficient heal requires and expensive heal to work at it's full potential. The hot bonus function of nourish should have been removed. It doesn't work well in the new healing model.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
12515
Yeah, it sounds like you're worse off even than Disc is before moving Grace. My Heal always healed for significantly more than 4k, even in Disc.

You guys need a new cheap hot.
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85 Worgen Druid
2980
Rokkru, but every other healer doesn't get penalized for not setting up their "Efficient" heal.

Heal, Holy Light, and Healing Wave, all do not have a requirement that you cast a 4k+ heal beforehand to use effectively.

It's fine if the mastery only works 100% on the tank, I can understand that. But Nourish, only on the tank? That's a bit much, when every other healer can still use their efficient heal on the raid.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4175
Rejuv actually has comparable HPM to Nourish once you hit the 12.5% haste breakpoint (915 haste rating assuming you get the 5% haste buff from somewhere). The raw mana cost may be expensive, but it also does a lot of healing.

Nonetheless, even during the Cataclysm beta, I argued that they should remove the HoT bonus/penalty mechanic from Nourish and make it in line with the other efficient heals, and I still support that.
Edited by Akylie on 12/17/2010 11:02 AM PST
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85 Worgen Druid
9245
Nourish requiring a hot to be as effective as the other equivalent heals is not only bad, it gimps us on fight such as Chimaeron. Regrowth when it crits does not even equal a non crit of the other 3 equivalent heals the other healers have.

Nourish needs to have the hot requirement cut and given the extra 20% free so it can be in line with the other equivalent heals, Regrowth needs to be bumped so it heals for just as much as the other equivalent heals as well.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
7335
This again, huh? Show me numbers I can check or this is the same tired, misguided whining as always.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14385
Well he has a point. Just looking at the cheap heals:

Average base heal +talent/spec% increase (no spell power, no crits, no mastery)

Nourish (no hot): 3713
Nourish (hot):4456
(Holy) Heal: 4883
(Disc) Heal: 3899 (assuming 3/3 empowered healing) (+15% int adds to sp portion)
(Disc) Heal(Gracex3): 4835 (assuming 3/3 empowered healing) (+15% int adds to sp portion)
Healing Wave (no ES): 3500
Healing Wave (ES): 4025
Holy Light: 5364

Now, that doesn't necessarily mean the direct heals need to be increased since you have to look at the whole healing kit interaction, but he is right in suggesting the druid/shaman ones are feel a little low - especially off the tank target. The one advantage I can see for Healing Wave is it can be hasted alot by Tidal Waves, which may on average bring up its HPS compared to the others (though not its HPM)

I bet blizz is still looking in to tweaking the numbers here and there, give it time.


Copy of my post in another thread. Though once you add actual spellpower into it, that may help prop up nourish (as the spellpower component is affected by the % increases from talents/spec)

Nourish (0 hots) would add 1.43*(coefficient*spellpower)
Heal(holy) would add 1.32*(coefficient*spellpower)
Heal(disc)(no grace) would add 1.15*(coefficient*(spellpower increased by the +15%int))
Healing Wave (no ES) would add 1.166*(coefficient*spellpower)
Holy Light would add 1.22*(coefficient*spellpower)

So even though Nourish 0 hots is weaker, it should scale faster with spell power since it has more % heal increases from talent/spec (assuming they all have the same coefficient - if they don't, well that changes everything :p)

On the flip side, poor Healing Wave, (disc heal gets to scale with Int at least)
Edited by Keiyra on 12/17/2010 12:16 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
4310
Ur nourish is for ur lifebloom holder. You off heal with clear casting procs. You should only be using rejuv in pressure situations. Ur dps should not be taking so much damage that u need to use anything other than ur OoC procs generally speaking.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14385
12/17/2010 12:08 PMPosted by Híppy
Ur nourish is for ur lifebloom holder. You off heal with clear casting procs. You should only be using rejuv in pressure situations. Ur dps should not be taking so much damage that u need to use anything other than ur OoC procs generally speaking.


Oh I agree, I tend to use Rejuv,WG or OoC procs to heal dps - though nourish can be a useful followup if the hot wont be enough to fill them up - number crunching was just more entertaining than work...
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85 Worgen Druid
9245
12/17/2010 12:08 PMPosted by Híppy
Ur nourish is for ur lifebloom holder. You off heal with clear casting procs. You should only be using rejuv in pressure situations. Ur dps should not be taking so much damage that u need to use anything other than ur OoC procs generally speaking.


Some of us do more then 5 man normals, Some of us do more then just heroics (one day you might get there) Some of us actually raid and Nourish not healing for what other equivalent heals heal for is holding us back (Chimaeron) just because you sit there in your 5 man normal and think Nourish is fine doesn't make it true.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2860
12/17/2010 7:31 AMPosted by Stovey
Rokkru, but every other healer doesn't get penalized for not setting up their "Efficient" heal.

Heal, Holy Light, and Healing Wave, all do not have a requirement that you cast a 4k+ heal beforehand to use effectively.

It's fine if the mastery only works 100% on the tank, I can understand that. But Nourish, only on the tank? That's a bit much, when every other healer can still use their efficient heal on the raid.


Hehe, I'm not trying to justify anything.

I know what you mean.
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85 Worgen Druid
9245
12/17/2010 11:25 AMPosted by Anohako
This again, huh? Show me numbers I can check or this is the same tired, misguided whining as always.


Same tired, misguided whining druid hater as always i see Sonohako.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7335
I went ahead and removed Nourish off my bar.
Its mana efficiency greatly lacks in it's ability to make up for raw healing.

Time and end result are **FAR** greater then mana efficency.

For the same time cost as a nourish I can cast a heal touch.
And while it costs more, it's effective healing is vastly superior.

And when I'm mana strapped?
I find stacking 3 lifeblooms and letting themn expire for a 30+k heal is far, FAR, more efficent then a Nourish, no matter what the cursumstances.
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85 Troll Druid
DoM
0
Offhealing with Clearcasting procs is a bad strategy on the basis of time; some fights do not allow you to wait. Really when everyone's taking damage, when can you just say "he'll get the Healing Touch when OoC procs" and then what if your tank really needs to OoC proc?

What's the saying, "Yea I know the game's rigged and I'll lose, but it's the only game in town"

We're at the moment stuck with OoC healing damaged DPS to be effective enough, but it's a bad system, and it's the only game in town.
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91 Blood Elf Paladin
7335
12/17/2010 8:56 PMPosted by Najeena
This again, huh? Show me numbers I can check or this is the same tired, misguided whining as always.


Same tired, misguided whining druid hater as always i see Sonohako.

I have the terrible quality of wanting to see proof of claims that in the past have been only matched in their persistence by their speciousness :(
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85 Worgen Druid
9245
12/17/2010 10:11 PMPosted by Anohako


Same tired, misguided whining druid hater as always i see Sonohako.

I have the terrible quality of wanting to see proof of claims that in the past have been only matched in their persistence by their speciousness :(


You have a terrible quality of ignoring data when its available, skewing it to make it sound better then it is "Hey guys Nourish is better then HL in WoTLK if you have the glyph+3 hots and you feign ignorance about a talent called Beacon of Light, Please nerf Nourish" Some may have forgotten your stupidity and hate for druids but i have not.
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