"We want dispel to be a choice."

84 Night Elf Rogue
2500


Well, you're either bad at math or exaggerating, not convinced it's the latter. Either way it makes your argument look idiotic.


I have a shaman on my 3s. I know how much purge costs. I know how game breaking it is. I know what its like for a Ret Paladin or a resto druid at 2400+ MMR this season, what exactly do you know?


Lets say hypothetically Blizz made dispels cost double what they do now, around 6.5k mana. So 12 casts and the shaman is OOM. What does that change? They will still cripple you with dispels. At some point you will make dispels so expensive that they cant even be used. Im sure some people would love that idea, but thats not balanced either.

Since youre apparently great at PvP, then you should know how some specs/classes are much more vulnerable to dispels than others. Again, isnt the more obvious answer to remove part of that weakness?


So nothing, that's what I figured. Okay, back on topic, it was a nice troll break, but I'm over it.

I don't find defensive dispels to be a problem considering the frequency at which roots and slows are applied, you actually CAN run yourself oom dispelling those. Perhaps an increased mana cost for offensive dispels only.


Well this really says it all. So nerf everyone else but apparently your ability to counter others is fine. No bias here.
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84 Night Elf Rogue
2500
12/19/2010 1:21 PMPosted by Emellious
Just curious, do all of you disagreeing with the idea of this post think dispels are fine currently?


I dont know if Id say theyre completely fine, but I also dont think theyre nearly as bad as some make it out to be. Im sure more tweaking could be done but the idea that dispels should cost someone the majority of their mana is absurd. In an ideal situation as far as defensive dispels go, they should cost a bit more than the DoT/root that was applied cost. Maybe something like 1.5-2x the cost.

As far as offensive dispels, either give them a short CD (8-12 seconds) or just make it so it doesnt completely cripple someone.
Edited by Cloakofskill on 12/19/2010 1:34 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965


I have a shaman on my 3s. I know how much purge costs. I know how game breaking it is. I know what its like for a Ret Paladin or a resto druid at 2400+ MMR this season, what exactly do you know?


Lets say hypothetically Blizz made dispels cost double what they do now, around 6.5k mana. So 12 casts and the shaman is OOM. What does that change? They will still cripple you with dispels. At some point you will make dispels so expensive that they cant even be used. Im sure some people would love that idea, but thats not balanced either.

Since youre apparently great at PvP, then you should know how some specs/classes are much more vulnerable to dispels than others. Again, isnt the more obvious answer to remove part of that weakness?


So nothing, that's what I figured. Okay, back on topic, it was a nice troll break, but I'm over it.

I don't find defensive dispels to be a problem considering the frequency at which roots and slows are applied, you actually CAN run yourself oom dispelling those. Perhaps an increased mana cost for offensive dispels only.


Well this really says it all. So nerf everyone else but apparently your ability to counter others is fine. No bias here.


You misunderstand, its not a matter of countering. It's a matter of supply/demand. The volume of defensive dispels needed in a game is large, snares and roots and cc are on short cd's and are spammed all game. The volume of offensive dispels is far less, an important cooldown every 20 seconds or so is all you need to cripple some specs, plus spam dispelling resto druids doesn't seem like it should be a viable strategy anymore should it? I thought we were over that.
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84 Night Elf Rogue
2500



Lets say hypothetically Blizz made dispels cost double what they do now, around 6.5k mana. So 12 casts and the shaman is OOM. What does that change? They will still cripple you with dispels. At some point you will make dispels so expensive that they cant even be used. Im sure some people would love that idea, but thats not balanced either.

Since youre apparently great at PvP, then you should know how some specs/classes are much more vulnerable to dispels than others. Again, isnt the more obvious answer to remove part of that weakness?




Well this really says it all. So nerf everyone else but apparently your ability to counter others is fine. No bias here.


You misunderstand, its not a matter of countering. It's a matter of supply/demand. The volume of defensive dispels needed in a game is large, snares and roots and cc are on short cd's and are spammed all game. The volume of offensive dispels is far less, an important cooldown every 20 seconds or so is all you need to cripple some specs, plus spam dispelling resto druids doesn't seem like it should be a viable strategy anymore should it? I thought we were over that.


Some of those roots you break out of with your defensive dispel have CDs as well. Not everyone has spammable CC. I dont see how you can justify defensive dispels and then say offensive ones are bad.

If I purge your 25 second CD HoF, thats gamebreaking but you cleanse my 15 second earthbind, thats fine?
Edited by Cloakofskill on 12/19/2010 1:41 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965
12/19/2010 1:36 PMPosted by Cloakofskill


You misunderstand, its not a matter of countering. It's a matter of supply/demand. The volume of defensive dispels needed in a game is large, snares and roots and cc are on short cd's and are spammed all game. The volume of offensive dispels is far less, an important cooldown every 20 seconds or so is all you need to cripple some specs, plus spam dispelling resto druids doesn't seem like it should be a viable strategy anymore should it? I thought we were over that.


Some of those roots you break out of with your defensive dispel have CDs as well. Not everyone has spammable CC. I dont see how you can justify defensive dispels and then say offensive ones are bad.

If I purge your 25 second CD HoF, thats gamebreaking but you cleanse my 15 second earthbind, thats fine?


Apples and oranges. Earthbind is just as easily countered by pressing tab and attacking it once. But things like mage frost effect, sheep, frost shock, roots, nova, etc, require much more dispelling than the random offensive or defensive cooldown.
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90 Draenei Priest
13455
I've always wondered why physical debuffs are not dispellable. We can heal the wounds of a ten story tall dragon biting a three foot tall gnome, but a Warrior hits us in the leg and we're helpless to do anything about it?

But regardless, I agree. Shadow desperately needs something more than a 3 second horrify.
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90 Human Paladin
7915
The problem is this - when Blizzard said they were revamping the dispel system - they only did 1/2 of what they said they were doing... like removing dispel resistances - most classes that had resistances, had them removed - Paladins got hit hardest by this... just about everything a Paladin has is removable - every defensive CD and Offensive one (this is not to say other classes are not affected)...

Blizzard also said they wanted dispels to be a choice andwould be expensive - this other 1/2 of their revamp did NOT happen - so currentl Dispels are pretty much the IWIN button when facing a Paladin (especially a Ret Paladin)...

The fix? Who know's - maybe a debuff on the Dispelled kinda like Weakened Soul or some such - lasts 20 secs that increases the next Dispel's mana cost on the same target by 100% per dispel and have it stack and refresh - so you dispel an opponent it costs 6k mana (or what ever) - they get a debuff - the next dispel on them in 20secs costs 12k and refreshes the debuff - the next dispel with a 2 stack costs 24k - you can see this will make it quite prohibitive very quickly (numbers can be adjusted) this way it doesn't become and IWIN button for the dispeller against certain classes...

Or make more of the buffs a class has undispellable as in the Original OP (that most here seem to have missed)
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85 Undead Priest
6235
Its still pretty expensive atm.

But yeah, alot of classes need dispel protection. Preferably of the dk variety.
Edited by Korvos on 12/19/2010 3:15 PM PST
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69 Troll Mage
1080
frost mages are pretty ridiculous in terms of snares and roots without dispells, but getting ice barrier / mana shield torn off me sucks ass too...
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83 Tauren Druid
3650
You could make resilience provide the dispel protection that most classes lost during the revamp. It's really only there for pvp purposes anyway, so why not tie it to the pvp stat. This would also reinforce the idea that pvp gear is required for that activity (at least for some classes like paladins).
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965
12/19/2010 3:09 PMPosted by Trimagestis
The problem is this - when Blizzard said they were revamping the dispel system - they only did 1/2 of what they said they were doing... like removing dispel resistances - most classes that had resistances, had them removed - Paladins got hit hardest by this... just about everything a Paladin has is removable - every defensive CD and Offensive one (this is not to say other classes are not affected)...

Blizzard also said they wanted dispels to be a choice andwould be expensive - this other 1/2 of their revamp did NOT happen - so currentl Dispels are pretty much the IWIN button when facing a Paladin (especially a Ret Paladin)...

The fix? Who know's - maybe a debuff on the Dispelled kinda like Weakened Soul or some such - lasts 20 secs that increases the next Dispel's mana cost on the same target by 100% per dispel and have it stack and refresh - so you dispel an opponent it costs 6k mana (or what ever) - they get a debuff - the next dispel on them in 20secs costs 12k and refreshes the debuff - the next dispel with a 2 stack costs 24k - you can see this will make it quite prohibitive very quickly (numbers can be adjusted) this way it doesn't become and IWIN button for the dispeller against certain classes...

Or make more of the buffs a class has undispellable as in the Original OP (that most here seem to have missed)



+1
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85 Troll Mage
5350
actualy healer purging or dispeling should cost a bit more mana yeah maybe not 10x but at least x2, but the broken part is then an enh shaman can purge 160 times in a row and still be full mana...

dispel isnt a thing you need to think before you cast right now, its a spamfest, i dont think it was what blizzard wanted to start with. I rarely see a frost nova last more than a global before its taken off. Same goes with dots and other CC. And those dispels can continue like that for a 10 min arena match non stop. Looks like some healers found a way to have almost infinite mana or something even in blue gear.
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85 Troll Mage
5350
12/19/2010 4:57 PMPosted by Djunk
The problem is this - when Blizzard said they were revamping the dispel system - they only did 1/2 of what they said they were doing... like removing dispel resistances - most classes that had resistances, had them removed - Paladins got hit hardest by this... just about everything a Paladin has is removable - every defensive CD and Offensive one (this is not to say other classes are not affected)...

Blizzard also said they wanted dispels to be a choice andwould be expensive - this other 1/2 of their revamp did NOT happen - so currentl Dispels are pretty much the IWIN button when facing a Paladin (especially a Ret Paladin)...

The fix? Who know's - maybe a debuff on the Dispelled kinda like Weakened Soul or some such - lasts 20 secs that increases the next Dispel's mana cost on the same target by 100% per dispel and have it stack and refresh - so you dispel an opponent it costs 6k mana (or what ever) - they get a debuff - the next dispel on them in 20secs costs 12k and refreshes the debuff - the next dispel with a 2 stack costs 24k - you can see this will make it quite prohibitive very quickly (numbers can be adjusted) this way it doesn't become and IWIN button for the dispeller against certain classes...

Or make more of the buffs a class has undispellable as in the Original OP (that most here seem to have missed)



+1


This ^
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965
12/19/2010 5:31 PMPosted by Malïfice
actualy healer purging or dispeling should cost a bit more mana yeah maybe not 10x but at least x2, but the broken part is then an enh shaman can purge 160 times in a row and still be full mana...

dispel isnt a thing you need to think before you cast right now, its a spamfest, i dont think it was what blizzard wanted to start with. I rarely see a frost nova last more than a global before its taken off. Same goes with dots and other CC. And those dispels can continue like that for a 10 min arena match non stop. Looks like some healers found a way to have almost infinite mana or something even in blue gear.



This is an interesting take actually. Mages I think we can all agree are a bit overtuned currently. The consensus seems to be spam purge and ride them and hope that they aren't very good. Considering the number of purges and defensive dispels that it takes to accomplish this, that strategy alone contradicts the entire "We want dispel to be a choice" statement.
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85 Worgen Priest
3940
Just curious, do all of you disagreeing with the idea of this post think dispels are fine currently?


Yes dispels are working correctly, and are a perfect counter-balance to everyone having tons of CC, Resto Druids who think they can rush live through anything with their HoTs, and dots being stacked up to 5-6.
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