"We want dispel to be a choice."

85 Blood Elf Hunter
MHC
5705
My opinion is making slowing/rooting effects more rare.

I need to use CDs to slow my targets, some classes slow targets on every single attack/cast.

I bet hand of freedom purging/dispelling would feel less viable when the opposing class can't just throw it on you so easily.
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22 Tauren Druid
0
3.2K mana per dispel is not expensive at all. I hope some of you realize that HoTs costs over 5K mana. DoTs also cost a huge amount of mana.

All dispels needs a cooldown.
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12/19/2010 12:38 PMPosted by Opinions
Dispel is a choice - you chose to PvP as a class that is not affected by dispels, like warrior, or you chose to be rolled over by dispel spam.


Is this a joke? If I dont' get cc dispelled, I'm useless.
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85 Tauren Paladin
3935
I'm not surprised to see rogues and dispell classes try to defend it.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2940
Not sure how relevant this is anymore, but I was really bored while leveling an alt. I dinged, noticed the mana cost, and could not resist:

http://i54.tinypic.com/wmngi0.jpg
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55 Undead Mage
810
@caff wow just wow, you just posted a pic of Enhancement shaman's purge spell when they get it at like level 10 or something, as evidence? Sorry dont find it funny at all. Sure then shall we also nerf your self-cleanse when we nerf offensive dispells coz that is the only thing that lets an enhance shaman do damage in pvp.

Without the ability to purge enhance cannot gain maelstrom charges or proc windfury. Besides they do not have the stuns that other melee specs have. The only thing going for them is Offensive Dispell.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
3835
I know, that you know, that we all know that he was exaggerating. Internet forum or not, read between the lines. Dispel is not a choice, which was their intent. It is still spammed regularly and without thought.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
5695
It is true that purge is powerful right now, but it costs a lot more than some of you may realize. Obviously it's great against big cooldowns, but if I start to purge off druid hots and various buffs, I will run myself oom very fast. As for enhance shaman, yes they can pretty much spam it but that's their 'thing'. Every class gets something unique that they do well. And enhance shamans aren't exactly dominating pvp right now.

Also, blizzard doesn't balance abilities, it balances classes. There are 2 classes with spammable dispel, shaman and priests. From what I hear priests are pretty terrible right now, so it would be dumb to nerf them even more. As for shaman... resto seems pretty balanced, while ele and enh are fairly useless.
Edited by Skolem on 12/20/2010 4:41 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
12/20/2010 4:31 PMPosted by Skolem
It is true that purge is powerful right now, but it costs a lot more than some of you may realize. Obviously it's great against big cooldowns, but if I start to purge off druid hots and various buffs, I will run myself oom very fast. As for enhance shaman, yes they can pretty much spam it but that's their 'thing'. Every class gets something unique that they do well. And enhance shamans aren't exactly dominating pvp right now.

Also, blizzard doesn't balance abilities, it balances classes. There are 2 classes with spammable dispel, shaman and priests. From what I hear priests are pretty terrible right now, so it would be dumb to nerf them even more. As for shaman... resto seems pretty balanced, while ele and enh are fairly useless.


Then ret needs more stuff undispellable, starting with our 31 pt talent. No spec should be shut down so easily by an ability so easy to cast w/ so little cost. It's WAY too beneficial against ret
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85 Human Paladin
9670

I know that 10 times the mana cost would be ridiculous and that even suggesting it be raised to that cost is idiotic whether it's exaggeration or not.


Do you even know what an exaggeration is? Maybe you should go back to 3rd grade and learn what it means.
Edited by Sessa on 12/20/2010 5:18 PM PST
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2940
Humor was intended somewhere in there.

Yep..

(FWIW an enhance shaman is my only 85)
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85 Troll Shaman
7245
As an enhance shaman who can literally spam purge all day as long as I am auto attacking, I support a short cd on dispels.
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85 Tauren Shaman
11320


Some of those roots you break out of with your defensive dispel have CDs as well. Not everyone has spammable CC. I dont see how you can justify defensive dispels and then say offensive ones are bad.

If I purge your 25 second CD HoF, thats gamebreaking but you cleanse my 15 second earthbind, thats fine?


Apples and oranges. Earthbind is just as easily countered by pressing tab and attacking it once. But things like mage frost effect, sheep, frost shock, roots, nova, etc, require much more dispelling than the random offensive or defensive cooldown.


Holy crap this just SCREAMS biased. So you defensively dispelling my 15 sec CD debuff is apples to oranges when compared to me dispelling your 25 sec buff? What about a druid that uses nature's grasp? Or a priest using psychic fear? Or...any of the other defensive CDs that put a debuff on the target? Having your defensive CD that places a debuff on someone dispelled can be just as game-changing as having your defensive CD that places a buff on you dispelled.

As a whole I think the game has just gotten out of hand in terms of buffs and debuffs. ESPECIALLY if you look at all of the debuffs a frost mage can apply (but this is more of an issue with mages and frost in particular). Vanilla didn't have dispel protection, but for the most part was fine. Back then there simply weren't as many "key" buffs to be dispelled, fewer people could dispel enemy buffs (only priests/shaman. There was no spell steal spam, warrior shield bash, or hunter dispel either), and it wasn't as obvious when they happened (you couldn't see buffs on an enemy, only debuffs; and most buffs didn't have a huge DISPEL ME@!!!! graphic).

Another issue is that we have no clue what we're going to dispel. I know what I "want" to dispel, but that doesn't mean I'm going to dispel it. I "might" get that bop, or I might end up stripping something else that I'm not that concerned with.

Now the game could still use some tweaking, but as a whole I feel it is heading in a better direction than what was WotLK. Specifically druid healing shouldn't be "quite" so reliant on HoTs, you shouldn't be able to see enemy buffs (outside of PvE buffs where it's sometimes mandatory in encounters), and not every spell should have a huge "LOOK AT ME" graphic to go with it. A graphic, sure. But now with everything having an eye grabbing graphic it's far too easy to react and not miss things. Other things could be changed as well, but those are my biggest issues. I don't see a CD as a good change, especially given just how many buffs/debuffs are in the game now and the inability to control what is dispelled.
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85 Worgen Rogue
3875


I have a shaman on my 3s. I know how much purge costs. I know how game breaking it is. I know what its like for a Ret Paladin or a resto druid at 2400+ MMR this season, what exactly do you know?


I know that 10 times the mana cost would be ridiculous and that even suggesting it be raised to that cost is idiotic whether it's exaggeration or not.


Jesus Christ, are you retarded? he didn't mean 10 times literally, why do you keep insitsting on that? If you don't have anything to add to a discussion, just shut the %!*! up instead of playing a word game. SHUT UP ALREADY. I came here to see an actual discussion about dispel and all I see is you spamming and trolling about how " YEA 30K MANA ON DISPELS IS TOO MCH, I THINK OP IS WRONG " Thats not the point of the damn topic you idiot. Shut up and let the discussion flow.
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100 Troll Rogue
9120
12/20/2010 3:38 PMPosted by Byzantion
I'm not surprised to see rogues and dispell classes try to defend it.


nope the whole system is screwed up.

Offensive dispells need a cd and deffensive dispells need to cost more mana and some disbellable debuffs need to be changed.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965


Apples and oranges. Earthbind is just as easily countered by pressing tab and attacking it once. But things like mage frost effect, sheep, frost shock, roots, nova, etc, require much more dispelling than the random offensive or defensive cooldown.


Holy crap this just SCREAMS biased. So you defensively dispelling my 15 sec CD debuff is apples to oranges when compared to me dispelling your 25 sec buff? What about a druid that uses nature's grasp? Or a priest using psychic fear? Or...any of the other defensive CDs that put a debuff on the target? Having your defensive CD that places a debuff on someone dispelled can be just as game-changing as having your defensive CD that places a buff on you dispelled.




You're comparing earthbind to Hand of Freedom. How are they similar? I spend 5 talent points on Freedom, how many did you spend on earthbind? Freedom is my only means of having decent uptime on my target. Freedom is the most important button I have. If wolves were instantly dispelled with no protection, how would enhancement shamans do in 3s?

I'm far from biased.

These are the facts:

1. My ability to dispel my team was completely removed.
2. My ability to resist being dispelled was completely removed.
3. The trade-off to this we were led to believe was that dispelling AS A WHOLE was to be more a choice. More situational. It quite simply, is not.
4. These facts are not reserved solely for Paladins or Ret Paladins. Several classes have been greatly hindered.

These are all facts and they are indisputable.

They only viable strat for melee against teams like MLS past 2500, is to zerg a target and kill it in 10 seconds or lose because their control and God mode CC will always win given equal skill. I don't care what classes get nerfed or buffed. Everyone can see which classes are imba right now, it doesn't take rocket science. I simply would like to be able to use my abilities with at least a marginal percentage of success, end of story.
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80 Human Death Knight
4290
I always liked the idea of DR on dispels, where dispelling someone repeatedly would result in more dispels being required to remove debuffs thus burning more gcds and mana. Saving your dispels for the right time so you don't spend 3 removing a polymorph or something would be important - the choice would actually be there.
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22 Tauren Druid
0
A cooldown. It's about time.

Dispels are OP because it negates too many classes core abilities.

Nothing will make players think more before dispelling than a cooldown.

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