The Tao of Tanking

(Sticky)

85 Dwarf Paladin
7035
I approve of this post.
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90 Draenei Shaman
0
excellent guide a must read for all players who truly want to win. nuff said!
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85 Human Paladin
0
Thank you for letting the *##!@y whiny dps know that they get to do nothing in heroics because they are like children taking to dps Disneyland by their daddy tank who keeps them safe and oblivious of the dangers of heroics
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85 Human Hunter
4655
12/22/2010 11:20 AMPosted by Sceilence
Direct the other party members through those “oops” moments (i.e., the infamous hunter “Where’s My Pet?” scenario)

Funny, after reading this, I definitely said that in a heroic random just to mess with everyone. I think alot of people have read this because literally I got, "OMG WTF you serious?" responses.

Great article. Since I'm not entering the realm of tanking and healing (on a pally), I have discovered more and more on how much utility I have. I thought I had alot of utility, but now I KNOW I have alot of utility as a dps that can efficiently and effectively help not just me or the healer, but the tank and even save the group as a hunter.

This is definitely something that all three jobs should read so that everyone understands the whole core of what is actually there. Even if they do not plan on doing any of the two other jobs of what they do now.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4690
Please do not ever claim to be speaking for the tank community again. I asked myself, briefly, how this steaming load got stickied, and quickly realized that you've done nothing but pander to the egos of those who tank because they want to think they're the leader.

Your list of tank responsibilities is bloated with repetition and items you chose to leave off the duties of dps and healers (cooldowns to alleviate healer workload comes to mind), not to mention little gems like that CCs are broken most frequently by an ego-driven tank. You broke that Hex? You better believe you need to pick it up before it kills the healer.

But hey, no shockers. Tanks that can't cut it as dps have always taken the abusive father mindset. Better keep those dirty dpsers in their place, or they might replace you, right? As for me, I'll proudly call myself a part of whatever problem you and every jackwad that voted this waste of text into sticky status have.

No excuse me while I go debate turning full time Ret, just to create some separation from you and yours.
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85 Human Paladin
2925
This was an epic post. I hope everyone that plays WoW reads this.
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85 Human Warrior
5010
I cant say thank you enough. I havent tanked since BC and I finally built up a pretty good pre-raid set. Getting the motions of aoe tanking is much different from the days of old, Beta for me. This read has given me renewed hope in groups and tanking. Thanks again for such a good read.
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70 Blood Elf Paladin
1010
Is there any good guides on actually tanking. I like the theories posted here, but I want to be an exceptional tank, but at the end of the day I am a glorified newb when it comes to tanking. I understand that CC is crowd control, but is that just holding agro and not pulling more than the group can handle? Also, if I am new to an instance how do i guide a group through? I don't know how to gear for tanking or which stats are best to concentrate on. In a nut shell I need a newbie guide to tanking, and suggestions?
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85 Human Warrior
5565
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1772568258

Gruklaar has a decent guide for beginning tanks. I was going to come up with something but saw his and figured he had it pretty well covered. Hopefully it will get a sticky soon enough. Other than that, try talking with some of the other tanks on your server. Start with those in your guild (if any), but don't be afraid to ask for advice in trade or general.

"Any tanks have a minute to discuss a question I've got?" You'll probably get a bite or two. I've found that tanks are usually willing to impart their knowledge to a willing listener.
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85 Draenei Death Knight
1010
01/11/2011 5:21 PMPosted by Flinstaf
Please do not ever claim to be speaking for the tank community again. I asked myself, briefly, how this steaming load got stickied, and quickly realized that you've done nothing but pander to the egos of those who tank because they want to think they're the leader.

Your list of tank responsibilities is bloated with repetition and items you chose to leave off the duties of dps and healers (cooldowns to alleviate healer workload comes to mind), not to mention little gems like that CCs are broken most frequently by an ego-driven tank. You broke that Hex? You better believe you need to pick it up before it kills the healer.

But hey, no shockers. Tanks that can't cut it as dps have always taken the abusive father mindset. Better keep those dirty dpsers in their place, or they might replace you, right? As for me, I'll proudly call myself a part of whatever problem you and every jackwad that voted this waste of text into sticky status have.

No excuse me while I go debate turning full time Ret, just to create some separation from you and yours.


This gets a big report down, while the OP gets a like!
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85 Draenei Mage
3895
12/22/2010 11:21 AMPosted by Sceilence
Show me your l33t skills by not dying to your own stupidity, by be a benefit to the party rather than a hindrance, and by doing some decent measure of DPS. DPS players that do this are like liquid gold.


What do you mean liquid? If we all do it right, we stay solid, thank you very much! Nice post.
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85 Undead Warrior
1930
noob hunter trolls ftw amirite? great post, you should be commended for writing the collected thoughts of we tanks who care. And quite eloquently and well paragraphed might I add. I hope you enjoy many good groups and know that your post deserves the sticky it got :)
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90 Human Paladin
7455
as a tank! this is gold!! love it.

if u lived near by i would've made u rice & curry!
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90 Night Elf Rogue
9625
01/04/2011 5:14 PMPosted by Sceilence
Wow. I stopped by the tanking forums today and saw this was stickied, and my jaw dropped. I'm glad my insights are useful to the community, but I won't ruin it by rambling on here.

Thank you all for the sticky requests and the well said comments!


Well, it is certainly well deserved. :)

This is an excellent topic and very much speaks the truth. While this character is my Alli main, I do have a paladin tank as my Horde main on another server and this is certainly very helpful. I always do everything that I can as a DPS when I'm in a group: CC as needed, use my aggro-dumping abilities frequently, Sap/Kidney Shot/Kick casters, etc. because it's what I am supposed to do. When I'm playing my tank, I expect the same out of my group, explain and mark as necessary.
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85 Orc Warrior
4285
12/23/2010 1:46 PMPosted by Shortshank
When the fights run like clockwork, its because the DPS are the engine that drives the machine. The healers are the gas, and the Tank does the steering.


All summed up in two so sweet short sentances.
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When i hear the tank say oops that's when i switch from cat to healing.
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86 Night Elf Death Knight
3830
This started off really well, but turned into a DPS finger pointing rant towards the end. The intention was good, but I really disagree with the majority of it as a long time tank. I think a bit of housecleaning and clarification and less subtle elitism (DPS shouldn't be standing in fire, etc.) should have been done to this prior to sticky.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8745
This really is an excellent post. @Ishamhael, yes there may be some slight bias, but look at the overall message. @Dragocon, that works great in instances you are OP for, but I'm guessing there is a lot more communication going on with the group in Cata (at least for now) because the assumption is that people do NOT know the fights. I've dps'd (yes, hunter) healed and tanked. They are all challenging for different reasons. Healing to me is the easiest when everyone is doing their job correctly; tanking is always tough. DPS can be tough if you truly have the group-win mindset that the OP is talking about, but that is also when it is most rewarding. Have I stood in fire? You bet. Have I pulled that mob off the healer who just happened to use his big aggro-generating move as the add rounded the corner? Of course. Have I downed the boss after the tank and healer both died? Yes (but that was mostly luck). The problem isn't the people who have read this entire thread - we obviously care enough to want to work well together. The problem is the vast majority of folks who don't bother reading any forum - they just queue up and go for broke. It should be tattooed on the back of their mouse hand. Tanks - rather than explain everything every time, or heaven forbid just ASSUME everything's cool, do a quick survey - does everyone know the fight? Healers - tell a ranged dps to keep an eye on your aggro so that they can pull that mob off if one starts wooing you (yes, even plate healers). DPS - recognize that you would rather get the loot and the points and the gold than be at the top of the Recount chart in a fail group (yes, actually you would).

Tanks make the dungeon go successfully; dps make the dungeon go quickly. Healers make everyone else think, "Gee that wasn't so bad after all".
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86 Night Elf Death Knight
3830
@Mentatoneal I think it has potential to be an excellent post, but as it stands, it just reads like a very wordy "Dear DPS and Healers:" post with some quotes thrown in.

Personally, I have played, geared, and progressed a healer, 2 tanks, and a DPS. I could just as easily write up a responsibility list that dwarfs everyone else for each role. I've just noticed an abundance of elitism and God complex tanks out there due to instaqueue ability.

Tanks - rather than explain everything every time, or heaven forbid just ASSUME everything's cool, do a quick survey - does everyone know the fight?


This is key and what I fail to see in a lot of these "Tanking Explained" type posts. A lot of tanks, OP included, are willing to chalk a wipe up to someone else not doing their job. Be it DPS standing in the fire, Healers having to heal dumb DPS, etc.

A great tank, imho, is one that understands that we are not any more important than anyone else in the group. It's easy to say "Hey, I have to pay attention to this and manuvuer the mob so this doesn't happen and etc." but I can say from a DPS standpoint that the mage/hunter/etc has to equally decipher the tank's movements on the fly to understand where the best placement is, while casting and staying out of fires. It's easy to say:

Of course I ran out of hit points. But why? Were you busy healing one of the DPS because he was standing in fire? Was there some debuff that needed to be cleansed but wasn’t? Did you run out of mana because you were spamming flash heal?


But is it easy to say maybe I didn't predict a fear that caught the healer and I didn't pop a key CD. Or maybe the healer was cleansing very nasty dot's and I didn't help compensate the healer by making myself easier to heal for 15 seconds while they did that.

My point is, this thread was close, but took the "Blame everyone" route in a very eloquent manner. It stresses more of the problems tanks have with DPS and Healers more than the true mindset of a tank as the Subject line advertises.
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1 Orc Shaman
0
I've been watching this thread for a while, and finally someone has so eloquently taken the time to point out what I find to be an accurate summary. Overall it started out good and well meaning, but as Ishamhael said, it strayed too far into tank glorification/ dps downplaying/playing the blame game, and it was disappointing to see so many tanks just /sign onto that.

I've played tank, healer and dps myself, and the majority of the tank's 'responsibilities' for example are things that all three roles should be doing, and competent players of all three roles are willing and able to perform, without the need to be asked.

Every part of a group is give and take, there are two sides to everything, and parts of the post just seemed to neglect what others gave while glorifying what a tank does for the rest of the group.

When it comes to taking the hits, just as the tank needs to mitigate them via armor or avoidance, the healer must provide sufficient HPS. one being strong can allow the other to be slightly weaker, but a group can't function if both aren't working in concert.

Its the same with holding agro- the tank needs to generate enough tps, but the dps also needs to ensure they do not overthreat(dead rogues do no dps)

And its the same with healing- strong heals can prolong a fight if the dps is weak, just as excellent dps can make up for poor mana regen/healing choices in general, but ideally, EVERYTHING is working together.

At the end of the day, you can't put any one of those jobs above the other two and you can't just write off what goes into performing those jobs effectively(and learning to accomodate even in situations where maybe you shouldnt have to).
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