To the DPS who don't know how threat works...

6 Gnome Warlock
12/25/2010 11:12 AMPosted by Murmurs
I can guarantee you that, given equal gear, any DPS that wants to pull aggro from a tank can do so; regardless of how good that tank may or may not be.

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1 Tauren Druid
Bleh, regardless, with as long as DPS waits to get into something, you'd think you'd all try harder to make sure the run actually finishes. Even if you get a suck tank, learn to adapt by not pulling...why's is so hard, folks?

Learn to work with what you get, foolish to expect a pug tank to be as great as your super awesome raid tank....your pissy attitudes will ensure no ever considers playing those roles.
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85 Human Mage
PvP balancing made CC casts much slower than before. If you want CC during a pull you need to have the CCers initiate the pull.
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90 Draenei Shaman
12/25/2010 7:24 PMPosted by Gothos

If you didn't warn the healer you intend to do this, you are not helping. I promise.
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90 Gnome Mage
Fine. But please, just please, mark the initial focus fire mob with a skull before you pull. Having to tab through mobs to find the one with the health going down the fastest is annoying.
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90 Undead Warlock
Level 10 shaman telling people about threat. Please GTFO and troll somewhere else.
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85 Worgen Hunter
Ok mister tanks

Sence youy feel you need to post how your threat works

I feel i should explain how a trap cc pull works

Ive had more pull happy tanks mark for a trap and then pull befor my trap hits the ground and arms then i have ever pulled off of a tank

8 out of 10 tanks will scew that up

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85 Troll Mage
12/25/2010 9:04 AMPosted by Bruxly
I had one terrible mage Mirror Image while my heroic throw was flying through the air, and nuking the mob as much as possible before 2 GCD's.

Haha. If you lost aggro to a mage with MI up, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong. accidentally hit "teleport out of dungeon" instead of one of your abilities.
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85 Blood Elf Priest

Instead you are berating the tank who is telling the truth threat has been nerfed 5 sec rule always applies etc.

Makes you bad for yelling at OP when u should be saying 'yea the baddies need to fix themselves sorry for a awful run OP'
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85 Blood Elf Priest
Yes tanks should SKULL>X>SQUARE and use CC and not queue without knowing how to play and use bad gear is bad ok u cant tank in dps gear!

But OP is not addressing those things right now.

I have had my fair share of terrible tanks.
*Tanks in DPS gear
*Tanks that dont CC/mark
*Tanks in ICC gear
*Tanks that dont turn boss around and let people die

Read below my awful dps time today.... wonder why tanks r mad at joooo brooooo!??!?

I just had a very fruitless run...

The ret palli was around 3700 dps
shammy 2-3k at most
warlock 4k ish on the first boss in lost city >.>
When my 'fastest kill' DBM timer ran out the boss was at 47% life....
How they got into heroics in the first place I have no clue.
Since I know a shammy ele who does 11k on that fight in my guild a warlock who does round the same as well. IDK about ret pallis but they r saying in their forums 8k+ is reachable. Which the people I am talking about are mainly in ilvl333 ... so not that hard.

He impaled a few people sure, I pop'd greater heals on them, heal + prayer of healing so they got around 50k + heals from me while/after they were impaled now this is most definitly enough...... BUT

Once fight was over, we had one death I looked at the DMG TAKEN meter...

Tank was around 300k
Warlock around 240k (187k of it could be avoided)
Paladin around 210k (162k could have been avoided)
Shamy around 160k (110k could have been avoided)
Myself... 44k ... when I got impaled then run over a mine so tank wouldn't be LOS to me. But I knew I could handle this since well I have 107k life and I can pop a renew on myself ... derp.

Now if these guys would have avoided the mines/X of dust/shockwave/huge yellow circles well it would have been SO much better. I got to the point when they stood in things I simply did not heal them... they used self heals. Ret palli died.
Ret palli blamed it on bad computer graphics and I should have healed him coz it was impale dmg... Impale does not hit that much... seriously and I am happy as I always do chuck a few heals on said person. I told em to when they get droped from impale hit ground running and use Defensive CD coz he might drop u near a mine but this is fine if u run + use CD u wont die...

But anyways we get to next boss someones pet pulls it while palli was trying to tel us a way to bug it out bcoz dps was just way to low to last on that boss with the way mana is now. So, well.... yea we wiped and people started to leave the grp.

I told em to visit these forums EJ fix comp graphics get deadly boss mods and FFS look where ur damn char is.

*** I also did a HoO first boss... person was doing 2k dps and died in a fire...
*** Did a TotT all dps died to posion on ground from the trash
***Did a VP the DRUID PULLED BEFORE TANK HAD EVEN SET UP MARKS/SAID CC GO! - He got mad at me him doing this for the 6th time I gave in and let him die.
Tank was actually going at quite a fast pace IMO its just better tho if they mark and CC the druid decided this was bad 'lolccbro'
Got lots more stories but hey u get the damn drift.
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1 Undead Warrior
12/25/2010 9:04 AMPosted by Bruxly
Let me get straight to the point.


Threat has been reworked from last expansion, it's harder to maintain now. I can't thunderclap and shockwave and then go make a sandwich to return to my warrior still holding aggro. For some reason, 90% of the people who do this, are mages with big E-peens because they pull numbers on their recount charts. I had one terrible mage Mirror Image while my heroic throw was flying through the air, and nuking the mob as much as possible before 2 GCD's. This lead to "Hold aggro pl0x" and "Omg bad tank is bad" along with 50 other phrases straight from 4chan.

This has happened at least 2379 times. I'm not a bad tank, i've tanked BRD and BT, I know how to play my class and I do it damn well. I'm just not going to put 500% of my effort trying to hold aggro for DPS who don't know how to let me hold aggro. i'm going to repeat this.


You guys wait to get into dungeons for like what, 45 minutes? Why would you ##@# all over the tank for you not knowing the math and basics of threat mechanics?

So please DPS, i'm going to put this into words that even the dumbest of you guys can't even screw up.


P.S Yes i'm mad, yes this is a QQ, but maybe some of you idiots who pleasure yourselves to your dps charts will read this. Too all the DPS who actually give the tanks time to pick things up, Thanks for knowing how to play, you're the reason why i love to tank.

To bad players that roll tank to avoid the DPS queue. Tanking and picking up threat is your job. All 4 of the classes have taunts, and tools to keep the mobs on them. Often times you'll see a fireball fly over your head at the mob before you're even close enough to swing on it. Calmly hit your taunt button and resume playing.

People #!##* and complain about DPS not doing enough, but when you have some dpsers on the ball trying to maximize you complain that they are going too hard. Make up your mind, hit your taunt button or reroll another class, because the real tanks are getting tired of hearing about how fail you are.
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85 Worgen Warrior
You are right, its not WotLK anymore.

But, since when did DPS need to take ownership of your job?

That's the whole problem right there. So it's not part of a DPS'er's job to pay attention to threat? Really? You're probably one of the dpsers that doesn't interrupt either, and *##*!es at the healer for not keeping up while you stand in the fire.

This is the problem WOTLK heroics caused.. It developed a lot of bad dpsers, who now think everything should just be easy mode now, and they can just continue to faceroll up the meters and not worry about any other aspect of the game.
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12/25/2010 3:23 PMPosted by Allisse
Hence why it's so important for bad dps to stop being bad at being dps and let tanks tank instead of making them bad tanks.

It's a shame the devs believed that limiting tank threat would slow down DPS instead of catching unlucky tanks in the middle of "My daddy has more threat than your daddy" food-fights. Blizzard, for the 10th time: if you want player discipline, encourage it through mob mechanics.
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85 Undead Mage
12/25/2010 9:04 AMPosted by Bruxly
I had one terrible mage Mirror Image while my heroic throw was flying through the air, and nuking the mob as much as possible before 2 GCD's.

We have 0 threat as long as the images are up, If I suspect that you won't catch my threat before the images expire I'll pop invisibility before the images drop and completely reset threat. When you've got a clue how a class works you "might" be in a position to tell players how to play it.
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12/26/2010 6:49 AMPosted by Ludacar

This is the problem WOTLK heroics caused.. It developed a lot of bad dpsers, who now think everything should just be easy mode now, and they can just continue to faceroll up the meters and not worry about any other aspect of the game.

It's funny how 90% of these DPS LFD QQ threads should belong in the tanking forums such that the tank rerolls can L2P.

I've said it once before but it bears repeating now:
You know how you can tell a bad tank from a good one?

Bad ones ask you to wait before DPSing.
Good ones ensure you never have to stop, regardless of either of yours' TPS

You know what the problem Cata heroics caused? It developed a lot of bad diva tanks who now think everything should pace around them and be easy mode and they can just continue to faceroll up each pull and not worry about any other aspect of the game.

Someone, somewhere, at some point in time made the statement that Cata 5 mans are serious business and, for some reason, tanks took this and ran to town with it. I'm sorry to tell you this, but these heroics are only as difficult as you decide to make them out to be.

You can run most of these heroics with extremely little CC if the tank knows how to play well. Hell, I know first hand that heroic GB can be done with 0 (zero) crowd control outside of the tank's personal stuns and interrupts.

Tanks constantly pine about DPS having an easier job than they, but the fact remains that a DPS's job, on top of adequately providing utility if needed but they must also constantly strive to attain what is their theoretical maximum DPS, which is a practical impossibility, so, in essence, a DPSer's job is never done. A tank's job is to mitigate the consumption rate of healer mana and remain number one on every threat table they are applicable to. In a non-raid setting the former is very easy to do, putting the latter to the forefront of one's responsibilities (which occasionally plays back to the former also, and effectively if done well). There is a reason your taunt(s) is on such a short cd and, no, taunts are not exclusively regulated to "emergency" situations.

The number 1 reason for fail groups is not bad DPS but bad tanks and a breakdown (or complete lack thereof) of group communication. 9 times out of 10, if a target has a skull over it's head, it will be targeted first by DPS, and even more often if you actually communicate this to the group. You cannot and should not automatically assume the kill target is obvious, because sometimes it varies from tank class to tank class, sometimes every mob in the pull are equal in danger, and sometimes the prime danger shifts from mob to mob. As well, "assist off me" shouldn't work most of the time as a decent tank wont be tunnel visioning a single mob. Several aspects of tanking have arguably gotten easier since BC and Wrath. As previously mentioned (and as is quite obvious) single target TPS of tanks is extremely good, and more so once vengeance starts stacking up. With the advent of a renewed occurance of CC, pulls have become simple 1-2 mob deals that a tank is at luxury to pick through one at a time. In these situations, tanks have even less right to complain about DPS pulling aggro, since they have so little to focus on.
Edited by Tashre on 12/26/2010 10:58 AM PST
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I'll repeat once again:
Bad ones ask you to wait before DPSing.
Good ones ensure you never have to stop, regardless of either of yours' TPS

"regardless of either of yours' TPS". Do note this. A bad tank who doesn't adequately comprehend general game mechanics, let alone those of his own role, are going to ask that he receive an unopposed lead in threat. A good tank can make a pull dead cold and let the DPS freely go to town on a marked mob (or two). Pop quiz: What's faster, coming to the forums to cry, or pressing your taunt button when you're passed in aggro? Unless you've got an Arcane mage who has blown all their cds and entered an AB spamfest you'll be able to top yourself off over their initial burst lead, and then maintain yours, with increasing ease as your vengeance piles up. And in regard to vengeance, if you're finding yours to be piling up too slow then you need to be taking more damage! As a tank, the more damage you take, the more you can dish out, which in turn boosts your threat handling capabilities (and mitigation options sometimes as well). It's a give and take balance act, but that's what tanking is about; properly holding aggro and staying alive at the same time to max effectiveness (90% of the diva tanks on these boards simply think staying alive is all they have to do, with DPS working around their terrible TPS).

"Regardless of either of yours' TPS". Again, worth noting. Running as Frost myself with some of our guild tanks they know that, on the handful of snare immune mobs that I'm going to likely quadruple their aggro within the first second or two of the pull and with my first GCD or two. They know this and are ready to abuse this fact by keeping taunt immediately on hand to freely establish a very significant threat lead over the rest of the group, all for a short cd ability that is off the GCD. With some of you divas, were I to Deep Freeze off the bat I would find myself subject to an endless tirade about aggro, threat, and your own insecurities as a tank.
Good ones ensure you never have to stop, regardless of either of yours' TPS

It is also worth noting that, assuming you are a capable tank yourself, if a DPS is able to easily surpass you in threat constantly, then that DPS is well versed in how exactly to deal max damage. That said, the number one way to do bad DPS is to be dead, so those DPS that do pull off you are going to enter a variety of evasive maneuvers, from Ice Block to feign death to stopping their own DPS or changing targets to a mob they are low on the threat table with. In any case, you should-- nay, will find it easy to regain aggro with a focused burst of abilities, taunt excluded. When you run with DPS who are capable of putting up big numbers, you also have to give them credit to know the consequences of their actions and possessing the knowledge of how to react accordingly, because you are notthe first tank they've ran with who's been unable to keep up with them.

For each instance that it is said that a DPS needs to L2P is it also warranted telling a tank to as well, especially in these early Cata days. The argument that tank's shouldn't have to compensate (positively for DPS not knowing how to play carries equal weight as the one of DPS not having to compensate (negatively) for tanks not knowing how to play. In fact, the former carries less weight most of the time because of misconceived notion of just how much work and effort a tank should have to put into their role, and just how much use their tools, which are designed to be used, should actually be used.

As I mentioned earlier, tanking isn't for everybody. And it is my openly held belief that the true potential of a tank doesn't reveal itself under planned circumstances. When everything goes right every role in this game is easy to do; tanking healing and dpsing. It is when adversity strikes that the stars truly shine, again, in all three roles. And absolutely no one here will disagree that LFD is in a perpetual state of varying adverse conditions, so to step into a random not assuming so, assuming your A-game can be filed away, is your own fault, and your failures exclusively attributed to you. Scapegoats can distract from your inadequacies, but they cannot make you a better player.

/end diatribe
Edited by Tashre on 12/26/2010 10:59 AM PST
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80 Troll Mage
Those are the idiots I let die first when I'm heals.
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