Am i mis-understanding this...
'elite' players want conquest points for top gear.
'casual' players must get honor for 2nd tier gear.
Now you are going to allow elite players to cap out their CP, and then get honor so they can get what ever they need to fill out their character, get mounts, etc...
So a elite need never suffer in a bg to get everything he wants.
Casual players will continue to be locked out of CP other than the whopping 25 once a day for a win, even if they are capped on honor?
So a casual must subject themselves to an arena to get everything he wants.
Let casual players generate CP if they are maxed on honor. You are letting elite players generate honor if they are maxed (weekely) on CP.
That sounds fair to me.
And maybe honor after we reach the conquest cap for arenas? =D
Edited by Maleficent on 2/15/11 3:56 PM (PST)
I see many issues in this thread, some answered with intelligence and others not.
How about a required resilience rating of 3000 in order to pug for rated battle grounds, if we pretend the seriously flawed idea of 1800 honor for a Tol Barad win never happened, this would at least show someone had to grind hard for that gear. If they think its hard to acquire that level of resilience than they shouldn't be in a rated BG to begin with.
Also, when the next content patch comes out and the current CP gear can be purchased with honor, this 3000k prerequisite would have to be raised, maybe to 3500 or 3750, who knows.
You would have to find an acceptable way to rate pugs as another person pointed out because riding on coattails shouldn't work and nor should returning a flag/defending a flag, HKS, DD or HD be the only way as well, because like that other person said, this would encourage bad play.
That last bit is very problematic because of bots and afkers, there has to be a way to solve this problem that would greatly reduce the chance of these bad players receiving a higher rated rank. I would expect the resilience requirement to help in that department greatly but there would still need to be other safe guards.
Stabo is correct, after reading a few of the posts in here, I see people spitting on pugs and relating us to dirt. This is extremely unfair and disgusting to read. I'm not saying everyone who does rated battle grounds are elitists but from reading this thread I can see that there is enough of them and playing favorites like this is discouraging for those of us that have a very very hard time getting a group together for rated bg's. Allowing a group of 5 to queue and be matched with other groups of 5 would be very nice and yes, a 1 healer rule is a must.
make is so people can only que 5man at the most and it'd solve the problem of pugs getting rocked. and just keep the 10man rated bg's or w.e also. so no one really loses. hardcores can still have their 10man premades and pugs can still get ratings.
Edited by Saint on 3/16/11 6:59 AM (PDT)
Rated battlegrounds are not for pugs, end of story.
Rated battlegrounds are a progression in the pvp system, much like raids are to pve. World of Warcraft has always been about promoting group play at it's highest levels of organized pve/pvp. If pugs were allowed in Rated bgs then it'd be no different than random battlegrounds pre-1500. They just want access to conquest points without doing arenas.
Edited by Matronbaenre on 3/19/11 12:52 PM (PDT)
I think what would work is that you can join rated BGs solo, but you have a gear requirement to get in, sort of like some of the instances. It would be very high and you would be required to have most or all of your honor gear before you could join. Not only that, but sort of like instances, you would be required to have at least 2 healers before the match can start, to avoid horrifically lopsided teams. This way it would be like a second tier of pvp. You need to complete the honor tier and then you can move on to the conquest tier.
PUGs would obviously get rolled by preformed groups, but there aren't all that many people running preformed it seems like and this way at least some of us that are in small guilds would have the opportunity to take part in rated BGs without having to spam trade chat for hours on end.
At least think about it, Blizz. It would create greater participation, which is what you seem to want.
Edited by Rustynailz on 3/31/11 8:13 AM (PDT)
If matchmaking was bracketed by rating and/or gear, and/or whatever other nifty trick can separate a 3k resi vs 243 resi player, then rated BG PuGs via a random que would be a little more realistic. I didn't say fun, organized or efficient, but more realistic. Still would have common PuG BG's issues, but the fighting would, at least, be more even. At least something other than farming honor for 2 months could be an option for us shifting our gaze into serious PvP.
I've noticed that Rated BG's and old school 10M+ group farming are similar. Advertise in /2, and wait an hour to filter all the -3.1k resi whispers out till u get a team worth joining with.
Leaves you with either building a PvP based guild (best option, hands down), or giving the green light on some sort of filtered/bracketed Rated BG's random PuG que system. Either way, the way it is now, its a PuG on your own server, or a PuG throughout the Battle Group.
My 2 cents on the matter: Most RBG's are what, 10m grps? Give us a ''Create Rated BG's Team", similar to arena team creation, 15 person max (to compensate for logged off team members) create a leader, squad leader, yada yada, not unlike a small PvP style mini-guild, with tabards and such, and maybe cross realm it, inside the Battle Group.... Just a thought.
I fully realize that my gear is scrub, and prob specc'd scrub as well, so to all inbound flaming on those two issues, here's my preemptive reply:
"....................." (in other words, lets focus on the BG system instead of personal stats)
One solution I can see to current pvp woes would be to use current bgs and create tiers, also allow same faction bgs.
Tier 1: what we currently have, anyone can get in awards honor.
Tier 2: requires purchase of key (3-4k honor) to enter, awards honor and can gain rating.
Rating can only be gained when near a flag/node and from wins. If someone from your side caps a flag when you are within range of it you get rating increase. If you kill someone on the road between flags you get no rating increase. Things along those lines that promote good bg play.
Tier 3: requires rating high enough to enter, awards honor and some conquest. Can gain rating for wins and good play, can lose rating for losses.
Tier 4: requires rating high enough to enter, awards conquest some honor. Can gain rating for wins and good play, can lose rating for losses and poor play.
Tier 5: requires highest rating (would allow purchase of top pvp gear), awards conquest and some honor. Harder to maintain rating than lower tiers.
Basically this would allow people who enjoy battlegrounds to play alongside people who are similarly equipped/skilled and likely to not be bots/afks since they wouldn't gain rating. Those of us who actually care about winning/doing well would end up in Tiers 3 and up with the very best in Tier 5/5+.
I love rated BGs and think they are one of the best additions Blizz has added to the game.
I think a useful addition would be to add a LFG for both rateds and arenas. Give an option for the arena size you would like to do(or RBG) and your role(dps, heals, FC), AILVL(just as a start point as you don't want people below probably a 350 ilvl to be in your rated but would be ok to do 2s with for pts) as well as a place to leave notes like resil or past achievements or rating. This would promote more community building on your server and give you the chance to make new friends. Make this LFG not go away as long as you are logged on that toon so you can continue to do instances, BGs, TB, whatever, without having to just sit around. It could also show your current location so if you were in Q and are in BWD it would probably indicate you aren't as available as you meant to be.
I don't like the idea of an individual Q for rated BGs. But i do like the ability to search out or make myself available for rateds.
Most people that are at their cap will rather play the normal BG than a rated one, why go thru the hassle when you can have fun in regular with their higher tier gear and destroy the ones with lower tier for the same honor?
I wish they implemented that if you are with a certain amount of resilience you can't join a regular bg, it ruins the experience to the ones that are trying to get normal pvp gear.
If you are playing rated BG's then you should be doing that not ganking the lower geared people.
Yeah we do want conquest points without doing arena. No one is asking for free conquests points whats the big deal? Not everyone has the time or patience to find a rated BG team/arena team. Why are all the people on rated teams so arrogant? No one is asking for hand outs. We would still have to play to earn the gear. We would still have to suffer through losing streaks and queue times to earn gear. No one is asking that everyone be INSTANTLY made equal. We just want more of an opportunity to get better
Edited by Vid on 6/12/11 8:43 AM (PDT)
In conclusion a player rating system outside of skill level needs be implemented. One that is not based upon wins or kill / death ratio. A weekend warrior may well output very good numbers but is not able to play rated or arenas. A statistic based upon healing done or damage done would be better suited. If a player heals for say 4 million hp during a bg they get a decent rating increase. Or if a player does the same in damage or both. If they are a smart enough bot to out put enough healz so be it. This would be a player rating for ques I don't know about applying to gear purchase.
If the bot has 30k heals and 5k dps then they need to get a temp ban that increases with every BG ie goes on record (assuming the afk'er is 85). Every time they do not participate. This should be linked to the afk recording system. Much like the dungeon system a vote to kick option should be available that also reports damage and healing done for the kickers to see that way there will be no grief kicking. 10 of 15 votes required approx ratio. every kick should go on their record and possibly effect their ability to que if its high enough. Say at 50 or 100 kicks they get a message reading "due to improper use of the battle ground system you have been temporarily banned you will be allowed to que again tomorrow have a nice day" the same could be applied to random dungeons.
Done ban hammer laid down find something else to do. Then they get like 3 more afks the next day. before getting re banned.
O and side note someone who has been flagged afk should have a freaking huge hunters mark pointing them out for the opposition to kill :)
"ZOMG WTF BLIZZ CAN U PLZ TAILOR ALL BATTLEGROUNDS AND ARENAS SO THAT I CAN HAVE THE SAME GEARS AS TOP PLAYERS WITHOUT HAVING TO TRY AND IMPROVE MY PLAY ENOUGH TO GET INVITED TO A GOOD TEAM?!?!?!? PLUS I CAN ONLY PLAY ONE DAY A WEEK WTF PLEASE DESIGN THE GAME AROUND MY SCHEDULE!! I DONT UNDERSTAND WHY I CANT HAVE FULL T2 RUTHLESS JUST BECAUSE I PLAY ON A SERVER WHERE NOBODY DOES RBGS THATS NOT FAIR! PLEASE MAKE ALL PVP GEAR AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY AND EVERYBODY CAN BE WINNERS!"
It's never enough...
-If you want honor, grind BG's.
-If you want conquest, do Rated BG's.
-If you can't do Rated BG's, do arena.
-If you can't arena or do Rated BG's, play a less time consuming game.
You can't expect Blizzard to make everything in the game fit the needs of every single player. Sometimes you have to accept that there will be people in the game that will have better gear than you, due to circumstances you have no control over. Otherwise, everyone in the game would have a full tier 2 glad set with T2 weapon, and a spare tier 12 set with all BiS weapons and off pieces placed in their bags as soon as they hit 85. Then nobody would have a reason to do anything in the game. Which, sadly, is the direction things are headed.