Rated BGs Now Award Honor at Conquest Cap

85 Blood Elf Rogue
2420
12/29/2010 10:30 AMPosted by Evall
I know a great solution to promote continued play. Allow us to queue for rated BG's using the random BG feature as a pug.


If you could pub queue for rated BGs, grinding rating would just be a matter of knocking down the multitude of pub RBGs for free rating (given the large number of pubs queueing for free CP vs other awful pubs making most RBGs just like current random BGs). Getting lucky and not running into many other realRBG groups would be all you needed for a bunch of rating.

Rating changes would be a disaster, given the random nature of pubs. Actual RBG groups would skyrocket their rating with quick wins vs pubs (only being competitive at very high rating), while pubs' rating would get stomped by real RBGs and bounce up and down based on luck of the draw vs other pubs (making rating in pubs mostly meaningless). Simply put, ratings would be disasterous, becoming mostly meaningless for pubs and screwing with the ratings of actual RBGers.

It's a ridiculous idea on its face. Consider thinking before typing.

10/13/2011 04:11 AMPosted by Chav
Can We have a Team Death Match For Battle gounds how awsome would that be where all u have to do is worry about getting the most kills. the first team to get a certain amount of kills wins


I'll say it again:
We already have death match maps. Do you know who caps the flag? The team that slaughters the other team. Do you know who caps nodes? The team that slaughters the other team. Do you know who keeps their demos alive to drop gates? The team that slaughters the other team.

Massive numbers in small areas would require a rebalancing of all AOE skills and render CC useless. The dynamic of healer #s would probably matter massively more than it does now, rendering balance even more difficult. Speaking of aoe and healer balance, healers would need massive changes in AoE healing skills and rebalancing of those as well.

If you just want to mindlessly hit something, try a training dummy. It offers the goalless whacking you're after without the risk of getting pwned because you're a simpleton who cannot understand the simple battlegrounds in this game to know what to fight for in a DEATH MATCH for the objective.

Too boring and it sounds like I'm a mean troll, because it doesn't fight back? Then try Stormwind.

What you're asking for has massive balance problems which would require restructuring entire classes/game mechanics (solely for this unique combat). Not undertaking this massive reworking (including changing/adding/removing many aoe spells/heals) would result in downright silly combat and massive QQ.

I'd mention that it'd also be boring, as right now we fight to the death for objectives of dynamic importance based on what's going on and who's where (and even what's happened so far) in that particular BG. But it sounds like you don't understand the current BGs, so explaining that it'd be really, really boring to fight just as we do now but without a dynamic environment (which makes different BG instances of even the same map often have very different struggles and suspense) would probably be lost on you.
Edited by Bladeshield on 10/18/2011 4:18 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
2705
People play the RBGs not for the CP but for the rating/titles/mounts that come with winning. And usually we all keep playing till we get tired or someone on the team has to go and we don't have a replacement. Giving us honor points isn't going to change this fact.

Also, we still farm hp for mats. And doing a 25 min match in a rated bg against a 5 min regular bg, we'll still be in regular bgs farming....

But thanks for the extra hp...
Edited by Sïzzlé on 10/23/2011 7:06 PM PDT
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100 Human Warlock
5895
How can you que for rated bgs without a group ?
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
2420
You cannot, Genoside.

Rating wouldn't make any sense in "random" RBGs. if your win/loss was determined 90% by luck in who you got grouped with. Random groups also wouldn't have the benefits of communication (voice) and coordination (comp/strategy). They'd get STOMPED. Wouldn't make any sense.
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85 Human Warlock
3365
Actually Bladeshield, it could work. This is the way I thought it was going to work. You have an individual rating and when you individually que, you get grouped with similar rated peeps...this is the way it should always work...grouped or not. IMHO
Edited by Voodooguru on 10/28/2011 12:38 PM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
2420
That might help some small amount, but the rating of the people you're grouped with would be determined as much by their luck as yours was by your luck. How good the players of your rating are in any particular BG instance would still be left to chance.

So long as your success is mostly determined by the competence of your group, over which you have no control, it's left largely to chance. And as such it'll bounce around a bit, by chance as well.

And, as I said before, real, organized RBG groups would feed on you. Their luck at fighting pub random groups would be a random boost to their rating, just as your luck at fighting real RBG groups would be a random drain on your rating. You'd both hope for good luck, as it would significantly impact your rating.

That's 2 levels of luck influencing rating which would be introduced under what you propose. Neither of which impacts rating now. Both would detract from what rating indicates.
Edited by Bladeshield on 10/31/2011 4:51 AM PDT
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85 Human Warlock
3365
I have to say I didnt follow you on the whole luck thing untill I realized we are comming from two different places.

You are assuming that with an individual rating system you still get rated based on what the group does. With that understanding, I can understand your post. But individual ratings could (and should) be based on what the individual does....ie flag cap, base defense, and to a small (very small) degree HK's. A player would NOT get a better rating based on win/loss ratio. They could even base part of an individuals rating on the players current gear score. This would help with the problem of newly leveled people not being farmbait (at least not all the time).

All in all I like that they at least addressed pvp a little with rbg's, it's just not the direction I thought it would be. I'm more of a solo type player. As such, I dont like "scheduling" time that I can get a large group together, or joining what are essentially "pug-rbg's". It's just not for me.
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
2420
But how would individual rating be calculated? Different roles have different responsibilities. There's no way for the game to rate which players carried and which got carried.

You mentioned flag caps, but it's hard to rate based on that. Some classes/specs are just as useful as others, but they're not ideal FCs. Or base defense--How can you quantify that?

Any system to give individual rating would be destined to be abused (worse playing for higher invididual rating--whatever it takes, however you can do it) and imbalanced for the different roles.

I'd love the idea myself if it could possibly be implemented. But I don't imagine it can without being horribly and unfixably broken.
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90 Troll Shaman
4205
I havent read most of this post. I just have to say No to a group finder for Rated Bgs. Rated BGs should remain as they are. I believe the system works quite well. I was a loner playing PvP for a long time and i REALLY wanted to do Rated BGs. But I sucked. I would have been a hindrance to serious PvPers. I joined a PvP guild. They took me in Arenas to help me gear up. Now I run Rated BGs every week with my guild. I love it
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Woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!

BEST CHANGE EVER, been a altoholoic pug bg bandit since mid way through vanilla, always have 4-5+ toons geared out in honor gear every expac with other chars at various levels of gearing.

Also none of my real life friends play WoW and i tend to play the game solo alot just doing pug bgs or tb or farming mats for various professions, not knowing many people makes it difficult to get teams together.
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85 Night Elf Druid
4920
who cares.

why break your back in a rated bg when u could roll a random?
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70 Gnome Warlock
980
I was happy with no honor, and enormous conquest pts received for winning.

and anyone notice how the 'insta-group' has always existed for pvp'rs but for years in vanilla you had to be social to raid.

now blizzard is going to great lengths to bring a balance to these two worlds and I like it Keep up the good work blizz
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85 Human Paladin
9250
I know a great solution to promote continued play. Allow us to queue for rated BG's using the random BG feature as a pug.


If you could pub queue for rated BGs, grinding rating would just be a matter of knocking down the multitude of pub RBGs for free rating (given the large number of pubs queueing for free CP vs other awful pubs making most RBGs just like current random BGs). Getting lucky and not running into many other realRBG groups would be all you needed for a bunch of rating.

Rating changes would be a disaster, given the random nature of pubs. Actual RBG groups would skyrocket their rating with quick wins vs pubs (only being competitive at very high rating), while pubs' rating would get stomped by real RBGs and bounce up and down based on luck of the draw vs other pubs (making rating in pubs mostly meaningless). Simply put, ratings would be disasterous, becoming mostly meaningless for pubs and screwing with the ratings of actual RBGers.


I disagree with your analysis. For the first few days or even a week, it might be like that but bads and/or PUGs (pub as you call it) would quickly sink to the bottom and organized teams would quickly get their MMR up above. PUG teams will be like queueing for arena in quest greans, with an un-workable comp, without vent. Those teams will just lose until they get matched against like teams (which, I might add, is the entire point of a rating system - to match you with players of comparable ability). For anyone who wants to earn titles, a group will be mandatory. For anyone who wants to just solo queue to bust heads alone and eventually get gear by the end of the season, solo-queuing will be fine. And those people will receive the added benefit of not having to face off against organized premade teams that they have no chance of beating (or just talented/geared players for that matter).

I think the real problem with merging randoms and rateds is in little logistical issues (as they say, "the devil is in the details"). For example, will randoms be split each week into 10, 15, and 25-man versions each week? Will rated players be happy going back to the "size of the week" system? Will people be happy with their 40-man BGs being converted to 25-man (probably not)? What happens to the person who only wants to play WSG and doesn't care about points at all? These are just some examples that come off the top of my head.
Edited by Kylos on 11/28/2011 7:58 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
2420
I for one am so happy this was implemented. Thanks for the new wonderful patch blizzard!
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89 Draenei Priest
10230
This'll make me more entitled to help the pugger who advertises on my server in trade to form a group to boost his rating, bless his heart for seeking me out and wanting me to join every time.

Great addition to a great feature. Thumbs up from me.
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90 Gnome Mage
8115
So is anyone else experiencing loss of honor from BGs? IE I received 500 honor in an AV last night and only got 200 added to my honor. Since patch I have lost enough honor to buy a piece of gear. It's hella frustration. I have to fight horde and blizz to get all the honor I earn?
What gives Blizz? I have stopped tracking how much I lost because it is ridiculous.
s
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90 Human Paladin
8805
Well you knew this was coming if you didn't you haven't played very much. Anytime something will give out to many points of whatever kind Blizz will nerf it, always have always will. If they don't then is about 2 or 3 months you will have way to many good players with excellent gear owning most others.
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26 Human Mage
190
Can you do the same for arenas, please.
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