50% Colossus Smash

55 Undead Death Knight
0
Careful what you wish for. With this retarded suggestion flooding the forums more and more I thought I'd clear it up for the less intellectual.


If you have 50% mitigation you currently see warriors doing double damage with Colossus Smash up. Easy math. You think it's too much so that increase should be nerfed by half and be fine.

Unfortunately, Armor is not linear. Ignoring 50% armor will NOT bring you down to 25% less physical damage taken. Read that sentence again.
It will not bring the Warrior from doing 100% more damage to 50% more damage. In fact, it barely reaches 30% more damage.

With Warriors still being so low in PvE it means that damage must be increased across the board regardless of CS. Ask any cloth how they feel about that. You may just wish you learned to get gear and watch for CS instead of crying about it to create a new problem.

I'm not defending CS, I'm simply stating how ignorant the 50% suggestion is, and how it will simply lead to a new OP for Warriors. Some abilities need to be balanced around ignoring armor all the time, more bleed damage etc. Not 50% CS which just punishes cloth.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Warrior
7585
If CS gets nerfed, Blizzard is going to have to buff something else in the Fury tree. Because combined with a ridiculously high hit requirement that most can't reach yet, and the fact that warriors are pretty dependent on CS in the first place, we will be doing retarded low Fury DPS in PvE.
Edited by Ragebarr on 12/27/2010 10:39 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Orc Warlock
5930
It would be a hell of a lot better if the duration was simply doubled, and the effect reduced an appropriate amount to award the same 'bonus damage' over a longer period. Very little effect on PvE (besides long strings of Sudden Death procs, although you never have enough rage to make use of those anyway) and a very dramatic difference on PvP. You wouldn't be taking such epic damage over incredibly short periods of time. The Warrior would have to latch on to you for longer to get the same 'free' damage.
Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
6190
i don't see how anyone could argue with the base warrior damage coming up, CS debuff duration going up, and the magnitude of the debuff going down.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
8280
Yeah, warrior dps isn't anything specacular in pve, but is retarded in pvp due to burst. The more marginalized colossus smash becomes, the easier it will be to give warrior good pve damage without making them op in pvp.

I guess it's too late to change a lot of mechanics as this point, but imo, having to get 27% hit is retarded, and changes should be made
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Warrior
8010
No one understands this...

Colossus Smash alone isn't overpowered. Its CS + Recklessness + trinkets + inner rage + Death Wish all going at once.
Reply Quote
6 Gnome Warlock
0
And recklessness trinkets and deathwish are all medium-long CD's. They're supposed to do a lot of damage.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Warrior
7585
12/27/2010 11:35 AMPosted by Angilla
No one understands this...

Colossus Smash alone isn't overpowered. Its CS + Recklessness + trinkets + inner rage + Death Wish all going at once.

By itself, no, it's not.
But all of those things are pretty much REQUIRED for fury to even keep up with other DPS classes right now in PvE.
Nerf those, and like I said in the first reply to this thread, and you'll have to hugely buff something else.
Also, Death Wish and Recklessness are FURY talents. Not Arms. Most people don't PvP as Fury.
Edited by Ragebarr on 12/27/2010 11:41 AM PST
Reply Quote
60 Orc Warrior
0
12/27/2010 11:37 AMPosted by Metro
And recklessness trinkets and deathwish are all medium-long CD's. They're supposed to do a lot of damage.


Retardian of Ancient Kings says otherwise.

But yes, a major part of the issue is cooldown stacking. Making cooldowns possibly lock each other out for a short period of time could help remedy the situation.

Most people don't PvP as Fury.

But when they do, and the stars align, Fury melts people all over the place. It sure as hell isn't fun being practically useless as fury unless I burn all my cooldowns and then run off and hide until they're back. I'm sure it's not fun getting slammed by all those cooldowns at the same time either.
Edited by Muromra on 12/27/2010 11:48 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warrior
10290
[quote="16671008574"]Also, Death Wish and Recklessness are FURY talents. Not Arms. Most people don't PvP as Fury.


Death Wish yes.....Reck is a class ability any warrior can use.


Still though the people whining about Fury in PVP are just laughable.
Reply Quote
12/27/2010 10:45 AMPosted by Kasryn
remove CS, give us back the 30% damage across the board that was removed in 4.0


That could cause unprecedented issues as well. Yaknow, like being able to maul clothies into the ground.
Reply Quote
17 Troll Warrior
100
12/27/2010 10:40 AMPosted by Bibdy
It would be a hell of a lot better if the duration was simply doubled, and the effect reduced an appropriate amount to award the same 'bonus damage' over a longer period. Very little effect on PvE (besides long strings of Sudden Death procs, although you never have enough rage to make use of those anyway) and a very dramatic difference on PvP. You wouldn't be taking such epic damage over incredibly short periods of time. The Warrior would have to latch on to you for longer to get the same 'free' damage.


You are on the right track, but a little off on the math. Most people are looking at CS being a 50% armor ignore, which sounds about right for burst mechanics for the most part, but at 50% armor ignore it would have to have a 71% uptime (this translates to 14.2 secs with a 20 sec CD) to keep the same contribution to damage over time. When you get to that point it becomes a little absurd since it wouldn't really seem like burst damage anymore. Most people would feel penalized for the ~6 secs CS is on cd instead of CS feeling like a bonus.

The fact of the matter is that Fury and Arms need some way to passively bypass armor to some degree while nerfing CS to provide a burst window. The best way would be to have it either be a passive 20-30% from the spec (like DW spec for Fury, or 2h spec for Arms) or tied to Battle and Berserker stances. You could then nerf CS down to a 50% armor ignore and keep it at a 6 sec duration. This would keep CS feeling like a burst set up ability, but would prevent being able to hit an effectively naked target. Make Sunder, stance passive armor ignore and CS stack multiplicatively to make sure no one can hit a naked target. Maybe an example would help.

Let's take a lvl 85 target with 15k armor which is good for roughly 36.5% physical mitigation. Sunder is a 12% armor reduction, which would drop it to 13200 armor and ~33.6% mitigation. The stance passive at 25% would then drop it to 9900 armor for ~27.5% mitigation. CS would drop the target to 4950 armor with 15.96% mitigation. This means during that burst window of 6 seconds warrior burst would be nerfed roughly 16% compared to its current state. However, this would most likely yield a slight buff to warrior dps in a raid which one could argue is justified depending on which website you are looking at for parse rankings. I think something like that would be among the better solutions without drastically change the Arms or Fury play styles or completely neutering CS.
Reply Quote
17 Troll Warrior
100
12/27/2010 12:59 PMPosted by Kasryn
You mean the buff we got after ArP was removed in order to make the class function in pvp between then and release right? Hmmm, i'm pretty sure i preferred then to now. Although at east with CS i can pretty much laugh at prot specs now.


There were plenty of problems with post-hotfix 4.0.1 for warriors. The big problem was that they had to be buffed considerably in order to have competitive raid dps, but this caused some big issues with PvP. The PvP problem was that Fury and Arms could make clothies explode with little more than a sideways glance. However, they were still extremely weak against heavily armored targets in PvP like a Holy Pally, Druids in Bear form, Resto Shaman, and Prot warriors and pallies. Those classes may have noticed warriors were hurting them a bit more, but it wasn't nearly as bad as it was for clothies.

You have no sense of balance. 4.0.1 post-hotfix was a bad time for warriors because they were wildly OP against some targets, but very weak against others. CS was supposed to be the way to make warrior damage more consistent across all amounts of armor. It would have done so without making burst insane if they would have properly implemented the concept.
Reply Quote
85 Goblin Warlock
6425
ya know.. they could actually nerf things that are the real problem..

Like charge/intercept/heroic leap .. zomg too many gap closers..
or
Throwdown
or
berserk rage fear immunity etc.




it's their ability for way to much dps uptime that's the real problem IMO.

I never qq'd once to myself about the warriors actual damage as much as not being able to peel him off myself or a partner.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]