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8 Night Elf Druid
0
12/28/2010 12:04 AMPosted by Rawrbert
We'll just see what gets changed and how soon.
What differnce does that make, you won't be here right?


Not true. Your account can't post if you cancel
When you cancel you still get the remaining time left on the current paid cycle.
90 Undead Rogue
6165
Stop feeding the troll.
100 Blood Elf Mage
11310
12/28/2010 12:07 AMPosted by Castbar
gnashing our teeth and banging our head against a wall in pre-raid content.


If you're having that much trouble with the content it might be a good idea to change up your strategy. While PuGs fail all the time because of a refusal to listen and work as a group I don't see a group of friends having the same problem.



12/28/2010 12:07 AMPosted by Castbar
Well if you don't throw casuals a bone what do you think happens?


They did give the casuals something, it's called a challenge.
85 Dwarf Paladin
4125
12/28/2010 12:11 AMPosted by Rawrbert
Pretend for a moment we don't live in a world where your conspiracy theories are a reality known to all of us and elaborate on what this means.



Pretend for a minute that you work for a company where customers thoughts matter.
We shall see.


Customers thoughts do matter, if they are worth caring about. Yours is not, If much of the player base are finishing heroics and now farming their heroic achiev drakes. I believe you can at the very least complete them.
85 Blood Elf Mage
7595

Pretend for a minute that you work for a company where customers thoughts matter.
We shall see.


Apparently you never played an MMO by SEGA.

Edit: Also if you canceled your account, you are no longer a customer. Kthxbai
Edited by Kuuj on 12/28/2010 12:15 AM PST
2 Gnome Mage
0
12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
Players were conditioned at the end of Wrath of the Lich King to mow through Heroics at lightning speed. Not only were they too easy to begin with, by the time Dungeon Finder came out players greatly out-geared the majority of these dungeons.


And the majority of your player base enjoyed exactly this.

12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
They are more difficult at the beginning of this expansion's lifespan than they were at the beginning of Lich King. We like it that way.


The majority of the players who paid your bills during the fun times of Wrath disagree with you. Our wallets are proof of this.

12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
As new tiers of gear are released and new raids open up, Heroics will naturally become easier, but that provides little good reason for trivializing them now. This is true even if some groups -- particularly pick-up groups -- lack the patience, will, or teamwork necessary to succeed.


This is Blizzard's failure, not the players. You introduced three normal level 85 dungeons for Cata's launch. You didn't even give normal 85 modes for Deadmines or SFK. We have no place else to go but heroics to try and keep the game fresh because of the lack of normal dungeons for maxed level characters. Also, pick up groups lack the patience because the instances just are not fun. The demand for CC is to high to have so many classes or particular specs without viable CC.

12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
We prefer that skill and character power provide the edge in Heroic dungeons, rather than supplying simple boss fights where mistakes are so easily forgivable.


Once again, the majority of your player base disagrees. We prefer fun and enjoyable encounters which WOTLK provided and Cata lacks.

12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
Will it test you to play at your best and communicate effectively with your group? Certainly. Should Heroic dungeons be tuned down so failure is rarely a real possibility? That doesn't sound like interesting design to me, nor would it act as a good catalyst for compelling, strategic, and social gameplay.


Your wrath design may not be interesting to you, but it is for a majority of people who play the game. Also, the current Cata model for compelling, strategic, and social game play isn't working. It's not fun sitting in que for upwards of an hour to get into a group that's doomed to fail because the group lacks appropriate CC that Blizzard continues to harp upon.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3350
12/28/2010 12:04 AMPosted by Rawrbert

1 hour waits inqueue...
2 hour dungeons...
OP'd system designer pet classes...
We'll just see what gets changed and how soon.


How bout the queue wait times you roll a tank.
Its called supply and demand. You supply a tank, you get instant queues. Its what I did.
And if you actually talk about dungeons maybe even read through tankspot or wowpedia, then maybe you would not QQ about a trivial matter. This was nothing compared to Burning Crusade Heroics when they came out.

And designer pet classes, paladin healing got nerfed.
85 Undead Mage
7545
12/28/2010 12:10 AMPosted by Quinntus
I'll say this, Blizzard will never admit to being wrong, and are eager as hell to lie about !#*%, so no, nothing will ever be changed. The AH is run by bots, and the BG's are over run with bots. Do you think Blizzard gives a crap? No. They just want the money. Screw the players or as we should be referred to, the customers. This is the only company in the world where you will always see that their attitude is the customer is always wrong.


Is this case, the customer, you, is quite wrong.

Blizzard has always focused on making the best game possible, which is why they make so much money. They have the best sort of business model, focused on the fact that quality equals success.

When you have a game with over 11 million people, it is hard to purge the bots. They have made efforts, canceling hundreds of thousands of paying accounts. They would not have done this if your premise was correct.

Blizzard also has admitted mistakes in the past, and even if it did regard its costumers as always wrong (which it does not), it would definitely not be the only company who believed so. If you really wish to attack a company, feel free to go after one like Monsanto, who truly destroys lives.
85 Undead Rogue
10520
Subtlety rogue.

Greens.

CHILL.
100 Tauren Paladin
9005
I remember TBC heroics were hard...but we made it through..this never ending bickering about wanting them nerfed is ridiculous. When something is called heroic, it shouldn't be easy it is something you feel accomplished for finishing..
run them in your guild, get familiar learn them before using LFG
90 Draenei Hunter
7920
12/28/2010 12:13 AMPosted by Rhydahlia


1 hour waits inqueue...
2 hour dungeons...
OP'd system designer pet classes...
We'll just see what gets changed and how soon.


Go use Mr Peabody's way back machine... and run BRD or Strat or Scholo.. in their hayday, and then complain to me about waiting an hour for a queue and spending 2 hours in the dungeon


Amen sister.
55 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
As new tiers of gear are released and new raids open up, Heroics will naturally become easier, but that provides little good reason for trivializing them now. This is true even if some groups -- particularly pick-up groups -- lack the patience, will, or teamwork necessary to succeed.
Yeah, but you seem to be missing the point. For example, us death knights shouldn't be forced to tank simply because we have no CC. I shouldn't have to wait in a 1h DPS queue just to get instantly kicked because of my class. No heroics = no gear. No gear = no raids.
93 Draenei Death Knight
6875
12/27/2010 11:59 PMPosted by Zarhym
Players were conditioned at the end of Wrath of the Lich King to mow through Heroics at lightning speed. Not only were they too easy to begin with, by the time Dungeon Finder came out players greatly out-geared the majority of these dungeons.

The reality is that it makes sense for Heroics to be a true and necessary stepping stone into raiding. They are more difficult at the beginning of this expansion's lifespan than they were at the beginning of Lich King. We like it that way. We want you thinking and trying new approaches through trial and error in order to succeed, just as groups do while raiding.

As new tiers of gear are released and new raids open up, Heroics will naturally become easier, but that provides little good reason for trivializing them now. This is true even if some groups -- particularly pick-up groups -- lack the patience, will, or teamwork necessary to succeed.

We prefer that skill and character power provide the edge in Heroic dungeons, rather than supplying simple boss fights where mistakes are so easily forgivable.

Will it test you to play at your best and communicate effectively with your group? Certainly. Should Heroic dungeons be tuned down so failure is rarely a real possibility? That doesn't sound like interesting design to me, nor would it act as a good catalyst for compelling, strategic, and social gameplay.


The balance between your last sentence and breaking the LFD tool is a fine one.
85 Human Paladin
6500
...or it makes you a paid poster! LOL

Conspiracy!

Hark! The end times are upon us!

Soon Blizzard will dominate the world!
85 Tauren Druid
4570
12/28/2010 12:07 AMPosted by Castbar

We enjoy being in dungeons that you can get off work, log in with your friends and play for a couple hours and get something accomplished, rather than gnashing our teeth and banging our head against a wall in pre-raid content. Hardcore players had their raids and casuals had their heroics. Now hardcores have their raids, and hardcores have their heroics...Well if you don't throw casuals a bone what do you think happens?


You can still run normals for 333s and rep if you and your friends are not up to the challenge in your current gear. You can specific queue for the easier heroics such as Vortex Pinnacle, SFK, or Throne of Tides. It's called progression. It used to be how the game worked.

I used to run TBC heroics casually with friends way back when and those were much harder than the Cataclysm ones. Casual != bad.
85 Dwarf Shaman
1610
12/28/2010 12:07 AMPosted by Castbar
We enjoy being in dungeons that you can get off work, log in with your friends and play for a couple hours and get something accomplished, rather than gnashing our teeth and banging our head against a wall in pre-raid content. Hardcore players had their raids and casuals had their heroics. Now hardcores have their raids, and hardcores have their heroics...Well if you don't throw casuals a bone what do you think happens?


casuals have normals, and dailies, and rep grinds to get the gear to make heroics easier. Casuals have guilds that are patient and willing to wipe a few times in BrC. I've been in ABDK for only a few weeks and we've managed to put together a "Heroics Group" that can reliably down HBrC in about an hour. Yes, we wipe, so what. It happens. "Trial and error" it's fun, we get on vent and harrass each other about how much we suck for "standing in the fire". Or praise each other for "not being a baddy... THAT time. I think that makes the game a lot more fun!

Thanks blizz
Community Manager
12/28/2010 12:07 AMPosted by Castbar
We enjoy being in dungeons that you can get off work, log in with your friends and play for a couple hours and get something accomplished, rather than gnashing our teeth and banging our head against a wall in pre-raid content. Hardcore players had their raids and casuals had their heroics. Now hardcores have their raids, and hardcores have their heroics...Well if you don't throw casuals a bone what do you think happens?

You might have to spend more time in normal dungeons than you did before if you want a very relaxing dungeon experience right now, before you jump into Heroics determined to succeed with ease. The difficulty of this expansion is on a different level right now, but it's still nowhere near the gap between five-player dungeons and raiding which existed in the original release, and to a lesser extent The Burning Crusade.

If you expect a quick, mellow run through Heroic dungeons -- which provide quite powerful gear given we're on the first Cataclysm raid tier -- this early in the entire lifespan of this expansion, you might want to consider collecting items and gear via normal dungeons and other means before regularly hopping into the Heroic queue. They're not super-unfriendly toward casual players, but they do require casual players to exercise skill and proper social/leadership skills.
Edited by Zarhym on 12/28/2010 12:24 AM PST
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