Dungeon queue should be performance-based

85 Blood Elf Paladin
There should be quests in major cities that must be completed to enable queuing for a dungeon.

To queue as DPS:
Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds.

To queue as Tank:
Hold aggro on this target and survive for t seconds.

To queue as Healer:
Keep this target up for t seconds.

For harder dungeons, higher difficulty quests must be completed, e.g. to queue for heroics:

To queue as DPS:
Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds, while keeping one target CC'd and interrupting spells cast by the dummy.
If the target is out of CC for even a second, you die and fail the quest.
If you fail to interrupt the spell, you die and fail the quest.

Quest will have to be tailored to each class to take into account CC abilities and interrupt cooldowns.

To queue as Tank:
Hold aggro on this target and survive for t seconds while interrupting spells cast by the dummy.
Occasionally burst damage will be taken, and the tank will be required to use CDs effectively to manage.
Adds will spawn occasionally that the tank must pick up.
Again, any failure results in death and failure of quest.

To queue as Healer:
Keep this group of NPCs up while they kill this target dummy that does things a typical boss might do (damage on tank, AoE).
Obviously running oom or insufficient hps results in death and failure of quest.

Why this is necessary:
Problems with restricting queues based on average item level:
- Item level doesn't take into account gearing for the most ideal stats for the class/spec.
e.g. dps casters taking spirit gear.
Not meeting hit/expertise cap.
Doesn't distinguish between a 'tank' wearing dps gear and a tank wearing avoidance gear.

- Item level doesn't take into account player skill.
I'm sure people have seen dps do under 5k at 85, while also seeing skilled players do over 5k at 80.

- Gearing to push up item level to enable queuing for new dungeons encourages ninja-looting, instead of only taking what is actually beneficial.
90 Blood Elf Priest
sounds like something i'd do even when I am bored.

I like this idea. That way you can judge players by skill instead of item level. Please do something like this blizz.
12/28/2010 12:43 AMPosted by Vurtnes
I like it, although the tank idea would need to be a bit more defined.

by holding aggro on said target you would have correctly geared dps people also generating threat, so you would have to outthreat the NPCs.
80 Blood Elf Mage
Like a gear check only with the players. I like it :)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
12/28/2010 12:49 AMPosted by Ârcturus
Surely you don't believe your que requirement will make a player who can perform his role well in all situations. There are too many variables when it comes to determining a players skill. A single task cannot determine a players skill level. Sure, the ones who already know how to play will pass them easily, but what is stopping those who don't from just mindlessly repeating this one task task you have assigned, over and over, until they finally get it down. Then what? You have the same player you don't want in your group now.

There is a lot more to tanking than cool downs and picking up adds. Theres a lot more to healing than standing there and healing, and there is a lot more to dps than dpsing and cc'ing

While true, it would make the situation better than it is now.
If nothing else, at least that 'undesirable' person:
If a dps, is now no longer doing subpar dps.
If a tank, can at least hold aggro to some extent (I have seen Paladin 'tanks' who refuse to use Righteous Fury, DK 'tanks' who refuse to go into Blood Presence, etc).
If a healer, can at least heal to some extent (though I've rarely had problems with subpar healers).

And I don't know about you, but if the player kept trying until they eventually got it, I wouldn't mind having them in a random pug, because tenacity counts for something.
Also, every failed attempt = repair bill, which is something at least..
Edited by Sinkinglight on 12/28/2010 1:12 AM PST
85 Goblin Warrior
This is a fantastic idea. This would force people to learn to play through experimentation before jumping into a heroic and doing sub-5000 DPS.
85 Worgen Rogue
I actually like this idea. A lot.
100 Night Elf Druid
Even if you forget about making it a requirement for heroics, I've always thought it would be a good idea to have "practice rooms" for the three roles.

You walk in and find yourself in a party with 3 NPC's. They start taking damage, especially the one acting as a tank.

You would progress to higher and higher levels. In the more advanced settings, various forms of fire or poisons would appear on the floor. You might get achievements for attaining certain levels.

I think that allowing people to practice like this, outside of the scrutiny and possible derision of strangers, you greatly improve the skill of the general population.
78 Troll Druid
This is the worst idea I've ever seen. Using abilities on a passive target dummy doesn't even remotely come close to the skills you need to run a heroic because it's missing the other players.
12/28/2010 1:26 AMPosted by Jenzali
This is the worst idea I've ever seen. Using abilities on a passive target dummy doesn't even remotely come close to the skills you need to run a heroic because it's missing the other players.

You're aware that Blizzard has the technology to make something more complex than passive target dummies for a training area, right?

Anything designed to help make the average WoW player a little more skilled should be okay in anybody's book, unless you enjoy spending hours in heroics wiping.
Edited by Malakk on 12/28/2010 1:31 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
I'm wary of anything too complex to begin with, because there have been cases before when Blizzard introduced something quite complex and found it to be a complete miss with the player base.

I'd much rather have something relatively simple implemented to begin with, something that would reflect player ability better than gear score (although obviously not perfectly), and then based on how that works out, have Blizzard build on it and do more stuff.

Something like "Destroy target dummy with x hp within t seconds." is very easy to implement, and serves as a much more effective check of dps done than gear score.
85 Troll Shaman
I like it but it needs to be more complicated, there needs to be avoidable damage for all of them, from radius damage from the target, to things the target throws out, FIRE ON THE GROUND! Lightning in the air.

Perhaps make a quest line where you do each part and then for the last quest you shove em all together and that allows you to queue ONLY has the position you selected from the beginning of the quest line, to queue as another role you have to do another set of quests.
85 Troll Shaman
On a side note I'd LOVE to have a practice room like Vagrant suggested because I really would like to tank, I attempted in the end of Wotlk, I was so out geared when I started heroics, I couldn't compete with dps doing 9k Q.Q my TPS was terribad in comparison.

Regardless, it scared me away from tanking and scarred me, so having something like this would allow me to play with these private dungeons without feeling pressured from a rush group or angry dps, and just let me figure it out without the impending doom of failure hanging over my head.
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