To Blue posters... Hubris is not a good thing

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4465
I think blizz made the biggest mistake a developer could make, they listened to some of the players. We don't know WTF we want.
85 Blood Elf Warrior
2200
There's going to be a bit of growing pains as people readjust to the content as it is in the game now.

Heroics are not for the casual player anymore, at least not within a day or two of hitting 85.

Normal dungeons are where you should be until you're in mostly/full 333 gear and understand all the encounters. Heroics are hard, as they should be. There is nothing wrong with that. A lot of players are unfortunately used to the Wrath model (more specifically the post Ulduar Wrath model) heroics.
85 Night Elf Mage
5265
Liannah, girl, I read through your OP, but this last number you did on page 3 is just too much. You gotta stop writing these novels.
23 Worgen Hunter
140
or you could just tone down the damage of several special abilities, so that standing in them for 1-2 seconds does not mean your at 75% less health.
5 Troll Hunter
0
WOTLK encouraged everyone to use the LFD system to help people experience content, especially after a while when a lot of people had moved past the heroics, now those same people are getting their heads kicked in for using the LFD system.

To me the difficulty of heroics combined with the LFD system is a disaster for the wow community, you really need to be in a guild.. on voice chat or be lucky enough to wind up with a Pro Pug


Its a totally different game now, isn't it? Why did Blizz turn it's back on PUG's, casual players with an hour or so to spare and healers?

Amazing. I don't think it will turn out the way Blizz intended but time will tell.
12 Worgen Warrior
30
To the OP...


5. Wall of text reflected, crits OP for 5000000


You have no clue what a wall of text is.

That post isn't.
64 Night Elf Mage
650
Agreed. Thoughtful and constructive post OP. I will quote you as this sums up your whole post quite nicely and my concerns with the game " I really love this hobby". WoW should indeed be a hobby, and should not be a huge time sink or unforgiving. I think the designers are perhaps forgetting this simple concept.
Edited by Perfectblue on 12/28/2010 7:05 AM PST
12/28/2010 2:52 AMPosted by Liannah
Then.. WOTLK... for me and many, many other wow players of similiar ilk to myself and our guildies WOTLK was a wonderful experience, full line-up of 10 man raid content, plenty of instances, some fun achieves to work towards and the knowledge that if we tried hard, stuck with it, we would be able to one day perhaps get a shot at the Lich King himself.

Sure, we never did hard mode Ulduar, never killed Algalon, probably wiped way too many times on Sindragosa, and yes.. by close of WOTLK 'heroics' were fairly easy and farmable.

Then along comes Cataclysm....


I think the problem lies with WoLK, not Cata.

There should be a distinction between Regular and Heroic dungeons. WoLK pretty much blurred the line between them so much that for all intents and purposes there wasn't one. Also, in WoLK you could jump directly from quest greens into Heroics--whereas in Cata you cannot.

Bliz is trying to restore the true raid progression. It goes 1) Quest Greens/Blues -> 2) Rep Gear/Regular Dungeons -> 3) Heroics -> 4) Raiding. Just about every person I've seen complain is either ignoring step 2) or trying to bypassing it too quickly.

And even then--if your guild is truly casual--so casual that you cannot do heroics even after getting adequate gear from regular dungeons and rep rewards, then I'm not sure what to say. But in any case, I don't think it's fair to ask for the content to be nerfed down to your level just so you can experience it. That will just have the effect of making it faceroll for everyone else, which will just drive complaints from other camps.
Edited by Benedikte on 12/28/2010 7:06 AM PST
90 Gnome Warlock
1785
12/28/2010 2:52 AMPosted by Liannah
I don't expect heroics to be a face-roll, and frankly for me they weren't a faceroll in Cata, but I think you've set the bar too high for people who are still trying to gear up.


This is the problem with all of these "nerf heroics" threads. People assume that they should be able to ding 85 and roll into the heroic queues for easy loot in quest blues and greens. Sorry, but it doesn't work that way anymore. Yes, the heroics are part of "gearing up" but you know what else is there for you to "gear up"? Normal dungeons. That's right, normal dungeons help you to gear up for heroic dungeons which get you geared for raiding, just like it should have been (but wasn't) in Wrath of the AOE King.
I'm in a small guild. We're not afraid of the big, bad, Cataclysm. Our motto is, "Nos Rideo Visio of Nex... Plurius!"

Bring Deathwing on!
11 Tauren Druid
80
I don't think the Blues really seem to care. One of them in an earlier thread basically said, "Are you min/maxing?" Seriously, I don't know what has happened to some of the developers, but they seem to expect everyone to only play the game one way.
23 Worgen Hunter
140

If you want to veg out and not worry about the encounter mechanics, play normal mode. You don't have to demand that they ruin the dungeons for everyone else because you don't want to do the encounters properly.


Whats properly about recieving 75% damage of your health pool, for standing in something for less then 3 seconds? Thats not hard, just idiotic.

You all inmediatly jump the wagon that a nerf means that heroics will be as easy as Reg. Which is not the case at all. You can nerf something and still have it be challanging.

Lowering the damage output of a certain special ability by a small margin, is not as bad as you make it seem.
85 Troll Shaman
4390
12/28/2010 2:52 AMPosted by Liannah
Add me to those who are weighing up the 'stay or go' decision with World of WarCraft.

I really love this hobby, I love my guild and enjoy the company of my guildmates.

Let me start by saying that yes i'm a casual, I admit I'm not the guy you'd want tanking your hard mode 25 man world first raids, I sometimes stand in bad stuff.

For me, Vanilla wow was a bitter sweet thing, sweet on one hand in that it was quite a fun hobby, bitter in that due to not really being into the whole 40 man molten core routine, or even in a 40 man raiding guild, I had to accept that an awful lot of game content would never be seen by me or those of my ilk, but we kept plodding on, doing BG's, questing, levelling alts and generally being the invisible 'filler' to the MMO scene.

Burning crusade was a step in the right direction, better questing than vanilla, some interesting encounters, plenty of instances, more BG's, and TWO (yes TWO) ten man raids!! For my little guild it was a godsend, yes we spend months enjoying Karazhan, sure we probably wiped on stuff the hardcore players would do with 2 players in greens with one of them offline but dammit, we enjoyed, for us it was hard but we got there in the end ;-)

Then.. WOTLK... for me and many, many other wow players of similiar ilk to myself and our guildies WOTLK was a wonderful experience, full line-up of 10 man raid content, plenty of instances, some fun achieves to work towards and the knowledge that if we tried hard, stuck with it, we would be able to one day perhaps get a shot at the Lich King himself.

Sure, we never did hard mode Ulduar, never killed Algalon, probably wiped way too many times on Sindragosa, and yes.. by close of WOTLK 'heroics' were fairly easy and farmable.

Then along comes Cataclysm....

To me WoW once again is begining to taste bitter / sweet, we've lost all but one of our healers, i'm the last tank standing, we're going to rebuild, we're working on heroics, but...I think you guy at Blizz missed the mark with heroics and i'll come right out and say it, you have tuned them too tightly.

A real sense of arrogance is comming from the blue posters and frankly I find it dissapointing.

I know what you were trying to achieve, you wanted Heroics to be more formidable, that's ok...I know that there are varying levels of skill, I know that there are players way better than me and my friends both in and external to our guild, I know that.

I don't expect heroics to be a face-roll, and frankly for me they weren't a faceroll in Cata, but I think you've set the bar too high for people who are still trying to gear up.

Healers are giving up in droves, I had a healer on team speak the other day in a pug literrally burst into tears, she was upset at the abuse she was getting, I could tell that she was doing her best but it obviously wasn't good enough, even with CC on mobs, cooldonws being used, careful DPS she was OOM by the time we got to the 3rd mob in the kill order... and I see this in almost every single heroic I do.

I look at the healer forums and almost want to weep at what I see, I speak to healers on vent/teamspeek and they no longer enjoy playing wow.

And frankly that's what this comes down to...

For the highly skilled, truly awesome players with digital reflexes i'm sure heroics are easy, they could probably do them in greens.

But for people like myself and others, it's like being hit in the face with a brick.

Some of the boss mechanics are just ridiculous.

OK I know i'm going to get flamed, told that I suck, told to quit etc etc...

But I'm deeply concerend at the number of people I know who are quitting or who just don't want to log in anymore and that have allowed the sub to lapse.

But the hubris being displayed by some of the blue posters, the contempt that is being displayed just smacks of pure arrogance.

And frankly, what on earth has become of the wow player base... do you really WANT the millions of people who signed up in WOTLK to quit and canel their accounts.. i'm sure Activision would just love that...


Blizz... please do not make the same mistakes you made in Vanilla and BC, yes take what you learned in WOTLK to make wow a better game for EVERYONE but do not forget your casual, semi-skilled plodders like me, i'm not asking for massive nerfs or 'free epics', what I am saying is that you went too far for stuff that is meant to get people experienced in fight mechanics and pre-raid ready, you are literally hitting your fan-base in the face with a brick, which isn't fun for anyone.

Hubris will bite you... don't treat those who post their concerns here with such contempt... as they say... money talks and bull@*@* walks.

Thankyou for taking time to ready my ramblings, please take this feedback in the spirit in which it was given, from a long term subscriber who is concerned.

Your's Sincerely.


Well said and spot on.
90 Gnome Warlock
1785
12/28/2010 7:49 AMPosted by Seliana
Whats properly about recieving 75% damage of your health pool, for standing in something for less then 3 seconds? Thats not hard, just idiotic.


So is standing in stuff that kills you.
85 Goblin Mage
2165
This post smacks of a whole lot of "IM NOT GETTING WHAT I WANT AND IM THROWING A HISSY FIT"

EDIT:

12/28/2010 2:52 AMPosted by Liannah
Let me start by saying that yes i'm a casual, I admit I'm not the guy you'd want tanking your hard mode 25 man world first raids, I sometimes stand in bad stuff.


You misuse the term.

Casual = Plays very little, or in short bursts. Can be skilled.

Terrible = Stands in fire, generally undesirable. Tries to pretend to call themselves casual to avoid ridicule.
Edited by Rokkette on 12/28/2010 8:16 AM PST
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