Feral pvp damage needs to be high

68 Night Elf Rogue
970
As you can see from this toon, I'm leveling a rogue, so I want them to be strong and viable. But I also have a feral druid, and playing the rogue really reminds me of how limited a feral's bag of tricks is.

A rogue can start a 2v2 arena match with a sap on the cc target, a stunlock on the kill target, he can then blind the cc target after the sap expires/is trinketed (yes, sometimes trinketing a sap is the right call), and now he can follow all that up with a smoke bomb that prevents the cc target from assisting the kill target after the sap and blind are over. And of course the sap, blind and smoke bomb are all non-dispellable. That's a pretty devastating opener.

A rogue can also reach into his bag of tricks and pull out a disarm if need be, and sub rogues have a shadowstep ability which is far superior to feral charge. If, in spite of all this, the fight turns against the rogue, he has a great ability to reset with cloak/vanishes.

About the only thing a feral has in common with that is that he also starts the arena match stealthed. The only time he gets an effective cc is when he gets 5 combo points on the kill target and uses a finishing move, at which time he can fire off an instant cyclone. But there's a long windup time for that, giving the other team plenty of time to anticipate and counter it. He can use instant roots as well, but they break at the drop of a hat now.

What ferals do now bring to the table is DAMAGE. No doubt, ferals do more damage than rogues now, and bleed damage is especially potent in pvp because AFAIK dwarves are the only ones who can dispel it. But I think anyone objective can agree that feral damage NEEDS to be higher in pvp than rogue damage, so I think allowing ferals to do so much damage with bleeds was exactly what the spec needed to be viable.

Now, it's certainly possible that feral bleed damage can be adjusted a bit downward, but it needs to be really strong damage because that's basically all that the spec brings to the table now. Boomkins remain weak in pvp and resto druids are a shell of their former selves, so feral is pretty much it for a powerful pvp druid spec.
Edited by Arelia on 12/27/2010 8:16 PM PST
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Yeah, I think they bring passive guaranteed snares, a baseline ghetto shadowstep, an entire shapeshift form dedicated to screwing up, that gives them unprecedented tanking power, immunity to kiting, and miscellaneous goodies like immunity to mage CC and uninterruptible heals. Sure, you can only cast one or two heals. And I can only get my face chewed off one or two times. Sounds even to me.

What ferals do bring to the table is CHEESE. Damage that you literally cannot kite yourself away from. If you can't stun the little vermin, you will, without question, have their little paws right up in your business. No amount of skill on earth will change that.


Your post, contributed about as much as mine. Great stuff. Would read again.
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90 Tauren Druid
7015
i logged in just so i could do this


*click*
*trolling*

You clicked the wrong person. This topic does not need a new thread.
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85 Undead Rogue
6085
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.
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85 Troll Druid
4445
12/27/2010 8:38 PMPosted by Euthanyze
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.


If they do everything better than rogues why doesn't your team drop you to find a druid?

And why aren't you rerolling a druid?

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85 Tauren Druid
6190
12/27/2010 8:22 PMPosted by Haply
you will, without question, have their little paws right up in your business.
about the only thing good in this thread.

i hate ferals who whine about rogues having better toolboxes more than rogues who whine about ferals non stop (even when we aren't objectively more powerful than them).

feral sustained pressure needs to be extremely high, yes, but this OP feels like a very strained attempt at 'don't nerf me'.
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100 Human Paladin
19310
LOL. Anyone else remember this argument from Paladins? "All we bring is damage!" It's still true too, especially after they took away our stun breaker. Now, remember how little it helped our case when the nerfbat came down? And don't even think you can sit there with a straight face and tell me Feral's kit is anywhere near as bad as Ret's was, and still is.
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82 Undead Warlock
2375
12/27/2010 8:15 PMPosted by Arelia
As you can see from this toon, I'm leveling a rogue, so I want them to be strong and viable.

Stopped reading here. I've leveled every class to at least 30+, 4 of which are 80+, and two of them are 60+. Guess that means I have absolutely no biases at all against anyone, right?
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100 Undead Warlock
8225
12/27/2010 8:38 PMPosted by Euthanyze
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.


and yet, rogues are just as represented as ferals.

but wait, if ferals literally do everything better...then wouldnt ferals be more represented?

hmm, i seem to have found a hole in your argument, better luck next time mate.
Edited by Middboss on 12/27/2010 8:49 PM PST
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85 Undead Rogue
6085
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.


and yet, rogues are just as represented as ferals.

but wait, if ferals literally do everything better...then wouldnt ferals be more represented?

hmm, i seem to have found a hole in your argument, better luck next time mate.


No, as the forums have shown time and time again representation has next to nothing to do with the actual power of a class.

better luck next time FOTM.

12/27/2010 8:43 PMPosted by Autumus
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.


If they do everything better than rogues why doesn't your team drop you to find a druid?

And why aren't you rerolling a druid?


Because I don't play with FOTM players and I'm not a FOTM player.

FOTM rerollers are pathetic, and I personally find it sad that anyone has to reroll just to be competitive/happy.
Edited by Euthanyze on 12/27/2010 8:53 PM PST
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100 Undead Warlock
8225



and yet, rogues are just as represented as ferals.

but wait, if ferals literally do everything better...then wouldnt ferals be more represented?

hmm, i seem to have found a hole in your argument, better luck next time mate.


No, as the forums have shown time and time again representation has next to nothing to do with the actual power of a class.

better luck next time FOTM.




If they do everything better than rogues why doesn't your team drop you to find a druid?

And why aren't you rerolling a druid?


Because I don't play with FOTM players and I'm not a FOTM player.

FOTM rerollers are pathetic, and I personally find it sad that anyone has to reroll just to be competitive/happy.


warlocks are FOTM, you heard it here first folks. so lets see here. dks, mages, warriors, druids, and paladins are all FOTM. and now we can add warlocks to that list!

also, im sure you are correct. data means absolutely nothing compared to biased and completely unfounded opinions that are incorrect in every conceivable fashion.
Edited by Middboss on 12/27/2010 8:56 PM PST
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100 Undead Warlock
8225



warlocks are FOTM, you heard it here first folks. so lets see here. dks, mages, warriors, druids, and paladins are all FOTM. and now we can add warlocks to that list!

also, im sure you are correct. data means absolutely nothing compared to biased and completely unfounded opinions that are incorrect in every conceivable fashion.


Either you're an alt of a feral/comp with a feral, or completely god awful. Either way your opinions are invalid.


i have to state an opinion in order for it to be invalid. unfortunately other than the FOTM comment which i made in jest to make fun of you, i havent.

also, a guy that hit 85 on the third day of cata is my alt? really? you are desperately grasping for straws here. i have actually switched mains from a rogue to a warlock for cata. why? because i hated the direction (or lack thereof) the class took from when the cata changes were released.

i stated data and asked a question. better luck next time champ. please continue with your completely ignorant opinions, the rest of us will be on the ground laughing at you.
Edited by Middboss on 12/27/2010 9:10 PM PST
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85 Troll Druid
4445
12/27/2010 8:51 PMPosted by Euthanyze
I personally find it sad that anyone has to reroll just to be competitive/happy.


If you're competitive or happy then you don't need to complain about feral druids do you?

If you're not competitive or happy you should reroll because it's downright dumb to stick with a handicapped class.

I don't think that is the case though, I bet you wouldn't like druids very much, I think you'd be shocked to find they're not as rogue-like as you thought.

No, as the forums have shown time and time again representation has next to nothing to do with the actual power of a class.


What does this even mean? Rarely does the forum show anything worth mentioning. Paying attention to high end representation shows the effectiveness of the best players in individual classes.

The only ways to refute the evidence is to either claim that changes to the game do not change the individual players effectiveness or that the players of certain underrepresented classes all suddenly became noobs.
Edited by Autumus on 12/27/2010 10:33 PM PST
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68 Night Elf Rogue
970
12/27/2010 8:38 PMPosted by Euthanyze
Feral druids do, literally, everything better than rogues.

If I really have to go through it all, it's no secret why you're crying.


I described in my post a specific, standard rogue arena opener for which there is no feral equivalent. Your brilliant rebuttal was an ad hominem remark completly lacking in content.

So yeah, you do have to go through it- what cc can a feral druid use to completly lock down an opposing team the way a rogue can with sap/blind/smoke bomb?

The truth of the matter is that rogues and ferals use completely different approaches. Rogues control and shut down the opposing team and still do nice damage. Ferals use their mobility and damage to power through the opposing team.
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68 Night Elf Rogue
970
12/27/2010 8:51 PMPosted by Euthanyze

Because I don't play with FOTM players and I'm not a FOTM player.

FOTM rerollers are pathetic, and I personally find it sad that anyone has to reroll just to be competitive/happy.


Most druids I know leveled as feral. Feral wasn't viable in arena for a long time, and resto was very strong. So it's natural a lot of druids chose resto. But now resto is struggling (especially with the lifebloom nerf) and so it's natural that a lot of them will go back to feral. But that's really what it is in most cases- going back to the druid they were originally.
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85 Tauren Druid
5190
12/27/2010 8:51 PMPosted by Euthanyze


and yet, rogues are just as represented as ferals.

but wait, if ferals literally do everything better...then wouldnt ferals be more represented?

hmm, i seem to have found a hole in your argument, better luck next time mate.


No, as the forums have shown time and time again representation has next to nothing to do with the actual power of a class.

better luck next time FOTM.



If they do everything better than rogues why doesn't your team drop you to find a druid?

And why aren't you rerolling a druid?


Because I don't play with FOTM players and I'm not a FOTM player.

FOTM rerollers are pathetic, and I personally find it sad that anyone has to reroll just to be competitive/happy.


In WotLK Ferals were abysmal in PvP for a long time. Most people who rolled Feral Druids did so because they knew, if played correctly, they did good DPS in PvE. And when I say correctly, I mean because they were, admitted by Blizzard, the hardest spec to play in WoW. Period. A lot of people could not get a handle on the play style, and those who couldn't rolled... you guessed it... Rogues.

So, to say Feral Druids are FotM is incredible incorrect and pretty ludicrous.
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85 Human Warrior
6905
I read "druids need to do more damage because they don't have control"

I laughed, facepalmed, then wrote this post.

No, they have plenty of control. They easily rival warriors in mobility and rival rogues in player control. And in a pinch, they can heal but that's not really the point. The point is, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA this thread is full of fail.
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