Why is PvP gear allowed in heroics?

85 Night Elf Druid
7020
I've heard of a lot of people using the crafted PvP gear in order to bypass the item level requirement for heroics. Why is this allowed?

It just seems wrong that someone can sit in a battleground all day long, farm honor, or just flat out buy item level 333 gear to get them above the limit. Meanwhile, the rest of us are entering normals in our quest blues and greens, learning the fights, accumulating JP, and hoping for those good drops in order to move on to heroics.

By doing things the RIGHT way, and yes I stress right, we learn the trash and boss fights on normal modes, so when we move onto heroics we have a good feel for the place. I don't see how sitting in a BG all day helps you learn fights.

Not to mention that in 9/10 cases, PvP gear just isn't optimal for PvE as 1/3 of the item budget is spent on useless resilience.

Please give PvP gear a 0 weight when factoring item level for heroic queueing. I can't think of any reasonable excuse for why it is allowed.
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85 Goblin Warrior
4535
Sometimes a piece of PvP gear is legitimately best in slot until you find a PvE upgrade. As for a full PvP set however... yeah that probably shouldn't happen. However I don't think Blizz is going to restrict it.
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
For many classes, there are lots of secondary stats that are just trash.
The primary stat advantage to using a piece of (higher iLvl) PvP gear balances it out.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7020
01/05/2011 11:11 PMPosted by Kanoi
For many classes, there are lots of secondary stats that are just trash.
The primary stat advantage to using a piece of (higher iLvl) PvP gear balances it out.


Any secondary stat is going to be better than resilience though.

That begs another interesting question; why is the pvp gear a higher item level than heroic gear?
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
01/05/2011 11:14 PMPosted by Physics
Any secondary stat is going to be better than resilience though.

For some specs, the difference is negligible when considering the higher amount of primary stats. The comparison is dicey when put next to a piece of 346 gear, but compared to 333, the PvP gear is at a significant advantage.

My advice to you is not to worry about it, because it doesn't make nearly as much a difference as you apparently think it does.
Edited by Kanoi on 1/5/2011 11:28 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Druid
7020
01/05/2011 11:42 PMPosted by Tewa


Any secondary stat is going to be better than resilience though.

That begs another interesting question; why is the pvp gear a higher item level than heroic gear?


I tanked heroics for weeks wearing the crafted PvP bracers, because they were better than any of the alternatives.
Haste is total garbage for bears. So I would rather have bracers with more Agility, more Stamina, and more Armor. I don't care if they have worthless Resilience or worthless Haste.


I'm not talking about one or even two pieces, I'm talking about people using essentially full crafted/honor PvP sets in order to bypass the heroic item level restriction.
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
01/06/2011 1:23 AMPosted by Physics
I'm not talking about one or even two pieces, I'm talking about people using essentially full crafted/honor PvP sets in order to bypass the heroic item level restriction.

The item level restriction for heroic queues is 329, which is surpassed by just a scant number of PvP gear pieces. They're not wearing that many just to bypass the restriction - either they have no heroic gear otherwise to work with (in which case, the PvP gear will be just as good as normal dungeon gear, and better than quest reward greens), or they're incompetent, which has very little to do with the gear itself.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7020
01/06/2011 1:29 AMPosted by Kanoi
I'm not talking about one or even two pieces, I'm talking about people using essentially full crafted/honor PvP sets in order to bypass the heroic item level restriction.

The item level restriction for heroic queues is 329, which is surpassed by just a scant number of PvP gear pieces. They're not wearing that many just to bypass the restriction - either they have no heroic gear otherwise to work with (in which case, the PvP gear will be just as good as normal dungeon gear, and better than quest reward greens), or they're incompetent, which has very little to do with the gear itself.


One of my basic points is that regardless of their reasons for using it, PvP gear has no place in PvE content period. There are many ways to obtain starter PvE gear such as quests, regular dungeons, BoE world drops, and crafting patterns. People act as if AFKing in BGs is the only way to obtain starter gear. It's not the only way, simply the laziest. The primary stats on a 339 PvP piece are not going to significantly trump the loss of 1/3 item budget over a 333 PvE piece. PvP gear is itemized for PvP, and should stay in PvP.
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85 Night Elf Druid
7020
01/06/2011 5:47 AMPosted by Popejbieber
I've heard of a lot of people using the crafted PvP gear in order to bypass the item level requirement for heroics. Why is this allowed?

It just seems wrong that someone can sit in a battleground all day long, farm honor, or just flat out buy item level 333 gear to get them above the limit. Meanwhile, the rest of us are entering normals in our quest blues and greens, learning the fights, accumulating JP, and hoping for those good drops in order to move on to heroics.

By doing things the RIGHT way, and yes I stress right, we learn the trash and boss fights on normal modes, so when we move onto heroics we have a good feel for the place. I don't see how sitting in a BG all day helps you learn fights.

Not to mention that in 9/10 cases, PvP gear just isn't optimal for PvE as 1/3 of the item budget is spent on useless resilience.

Please give PvP gear a 0 weight when factoring item level for heroic queueing. I can't think of any reasonable excuse for why it is allowed.


you have PvP gear on, so quit whining noob


No I don't?

But thanks for that riveting, yet ultimately incorrect observation.
Edited by Physics on 1/6/2011 5:50 AM PST
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85 Human Warrior
3805
some piece of gear such as viscious wrist ( for most class) are better than heroic gear.... thanks blizz for the lack of wrist choice in heroics.

There are also some class such as hunter that are completely imba's right now where the 4 piece bloodthirsty set ( 5% focus regen) is better than all the heroic loot in term of dps gain .
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85 Orc Death Knight
3330
I leveled this guy completely through archeology to 85. After hitting 85, I bought a bunch of AH greens, an odd blue piece here or there...but was no where near the 328 requirement to queue for heroics. I didn't want to feel obligated to quest after already hitting the level cap. I ran a few normals, but we all know how long that takes as dps.

So, I bought some blue pvp gear and I even bought a tank trinket to replace my ICC 10 one that was holding me back! You know what? I pull 12-13k on a target dummy, know every single heroic boss, and will be better than 95% of all pugs in the random dungeon finder.

The ilvl restriction in itself is an arbitrary limitation because Blizzard doesn't know of a better way to restrict it yet. Thus, you're stuck with people like me who want to be able to queue so we buy pvp gear. Still, buying pvp gear doesn't make you inept at your class. It's just that bad people are also buying pvp gear.

Honestly, they should implement some sort of "Trial" before you can queue for heroics. Make them a quest chain like in Azshara.

DPS: Maintain 10k dps on a target dummy while keeping a single mob cced for the duration.

Healers: Triage style quest similar to the old first aid quests in Hillsbrad. 5 targets all taking damage, one is labeled as a tank and your priority. Last 60 seconds without anyone dying.

Tanks: Random mobs trying to get past you to attack friendly target dummies. Don't let your friendly targets die and hold threat while an NPC attacks the targets.

I don't know. These numbers would all be changable depending on what would be deemed heroic ready, but the current ilvl system is bad. It's as bad as gearscore was and has absolutely no indication of player skill.

Once you complete your quest chain, you're attuned for heroics. Problem solved, and it's more fun.
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89 Tauren Hunter
6225
01/05/2011 11:27 PMPosted by Kanoi
Any secondary stat is going to be better than resilience though.

For some specs, the difference is negligible when considering the higher amount of primary stats. The comparison is dicey when put next to a piece of 346 gear, but compared to 333, the PvP gear is at a significant advantage.


Yerp. I'm wearing the crafted PvP legs right now, until I can accumulate enough JPs for the PvE legs. These legs were a massive upgrade to what I had before (which wasn't even 333 level, actually).

If it's any consolation, OP, I did take the trouble to put an appropriate leg enchant on them to make them less PvP-ish. And it's the only piece of PvP gear I'll be wearing into dungeons.
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85 Tauren Druid
3215
It really depends on your class and stats weight. I know i will not break my pvp 4 pieces bonus until i get my T11 4 pieces bonus because 250 agility is worth at between 400-1250 of any other secondary stats. So even with resilience i get better dps and no heroic loot comes close to my Vicious gladiator's Pike.

Make sure you understand the class before you claim pvp gear is bad for pve because according to gearscore i will 'face utter defeat in T11 raids' yet was top DPS on Magmaw on a 10 man run last night with 8 pvp pieces.
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