WTB some common courtesy.

90 Orc Death Knight
10765
01/03/2011 1:13 PMPosted by Gavino
I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, cause everytime I steal node these people think it's a crime to do what's on my mind. I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, but I don't gotta say a word, I just flip em the bird I keep going, I don't take sh*t from no one.


Some people have the idea of stabbing another on their mind. So by what you're saying they should just do it and it'll be OK. Peoples view on what is moral and immoral or ethical and unethical is very subjective to their raising, environment, and beliefs. However "stealing" is a criminal term and would be punished by law if done in real life.

It can, and I say this very loosely, be subjective to Blizzards terms of service and if repeatedly doing it to the same person could be reported as griefing. Even Blizzard does enforce fair play or "courtesy" to others in game. Not always visible or do we see the actions but it is there. Don't you ever read the little tips on the loading screen? Be courteous to others blah blah blah...
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90 Human Priest
15115
01/03/2011 1:13 PMPosted by Gavino
I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, cause everytime I steal node these people think it's a crime to do what's on my mind. I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, but I don't gotta say a word, I just flip em the bird I keep going, I don't take sh*t from no one.


What I said was that those who act in that manner share a trait that is prevalent among the criminal profile, not that their actions in game are a crime -- by Blizzard's 'law,' or ToS, it isn't addressed as a crime. So if you choose to define yourself as a criminal (and by your words you said you were 'stealing') then you're indirectly admitting that it is an offense against the societal rule if not law, though unfortunately it's not something against which some form of penalty can be applied for you to suffer.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11745
What this thread really amounts to is that some players make up their own rules of etiquette in regards to aspects of this game. They are primarily designed to benefit themselves, and are laughable compared to the actions people take farming on PvP servers when running across members of the opposing faction.

Here is the fact you are ignoring: Gathering professions are designed as a competition between players. If a node has nearby npcs to 'guard' it, you don't get special credit for fending off that guard. If the game designers didn't want that challenge, they'd make sure that all herb/ore nodes didn't have nearby mobs.

Mind you, this thread does remind me of some of the AH whining threads people post because they get undercut, or they feel they are undercut by too much. You'd be much better off if you'd just observe the system and find your spots to make personal gain (just like herbalism/mining really boils down to personal gain - even if you plan to give it away).

The basis of any set of societal rules is that either all are willing to follow them, or there are methods in place to enforce the rules with punishment. Neither criteria will be met here, so you will adapt or simply gain less while living with it.

Edit: inserted 'are' into the bolded statement as a grammatical correction.
Edited by Aeglos on 1/3/2011 3:24 PM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
13860
01/03/2011 1:13 PMPosted by Gavino
I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, but I don't gotta say a word, I just flip em the bird I keep going, I don't take sh*t from no one.


I'm guessing that's true except for your mother when she tells you its bedtime, your fourth grade teacher when she tells you to sit, your big sister when she kicks your ass....
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90 Human Priest
15115
01/03/2011 3:21 PMPosted by Aeglos
What this thread really amounts to is that some players make up their own rules of etiquette in regards to aspects of this game. They are primarily designed to benefit themselves, and are laughable compared to the actions people take farming on PvP servers when running across members of the opposing faction.

Here is the fact you are ignoring: Gathering professions are designed as a competition between players. If a node has nearby npcs to 'guard' it, you don't get special credit for fending off that guard. If the game designers didn't want that challenge, they'd make sure that all herb/ore nodes didn't have nearby mobs.


Etiquette is a socially acceptable code of behavior that might be most simply defined in the adage 'do unto others as you would have them do unto you.' Are you suggesting that people promoting that in terms of gathering are doing so so they'll have greater personal gain? If anything, those who are attempting to gather every node without regard to those around them are the ones most concerned with personal gain, and are in breach of etiquette by their disdain for the efforts of others.

And your 'fact' is mistaken. Gathering professions are not designed as a means for competition between players, but as a profession, meaning a means to accumulate materials which might be used directly or sold/traded towards sustaining a livelihood. The quantiy of resources are limited only over time. Taking someone's node from under them while they fend off a mob to be able to loot it would be seen as a very shady business practice if analagous action were taken in a real world venture, though much to your relief it wouldn't be seen as illegal.

The basis of any set of societal rules is that either all are willing to follow them, or there are methods in place to enforce the rules with punishment. Neither criteria will be met here, so you will adapt or simply gain less while living with it.


Laws (or in this case, Blizzard's ToS) are enforced with punitive measures. Societal rules, norms, and etiquette are not.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11745
Laws (or in this case, Blizzard's ToS) are enforced with punitive measures. Societal rules, norms, and etiquette are not.


This thread is all about trying to get people to punish others for not following what you believe is the correct way to farm materials in this game. You are seeking public persecution, not by Blizzard, but by other players for their actions. If you had power in your guild, would you impose raiding sanctions, alterations of guild rank, or expulsion based on actions based on farming behavior? Or would you hold the leadership of other guilds to these standards if you did? What are you really looking to have happen through this thread?

Part of the core of etiquette has always been to permit the elites in society ways to distinguish themselves from the commoners. Breaking these rules, especially consistently would result in being socially shunned by their peers, and they would lose the status in society they once had.

01/03/2011 4:30 PMPosted by Bigslick
Taking someone's node from under them while they fend off a mob to be able to loot it would be seen as a very shady business practice if analagous action were taken in a real world venture, though much to your relief it wouldn't be seen as illegal.


I see it more like this: There is one box of Frosted Flakes left on the shelf at a supermarket. A woman is walking towards the cereal with her children and stops next to the cereal but does not block it from you. She then is distracted by the child, and you walk up and take the one box and proceed to buy it. Is it not there for her to get at that time, but she'll easily be able to find it elsewhere, or even at that same location later. Your solution is that her reaction to you taking the cereal is to make a scene about how she was totally going to buy that and you swooped in to take it.

So yes, in my mind you come off as a little crazy.
Edited by Aeglos on 1/3/2011 4:48 PM PST
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90 Human Priest
15115
01/03/2011 4:46 PMPosted by Aeglos
This thread is all about trying to get people to punish others for not following what you believe is the correct way to farm materials in this game. You are seeking public persecution, not by Blizzard, but by other players for their actions. If you had power in your guild, would you impose raiding sanctions, alterations of guild rank, or expulsion based on actions based on farming behavior? Or would you hold the leadership of other guilds to these standards if you did? What are you really looking to have happen through this thread?

Part of the core of etiquette has always been to permit the elites in society ways to distinguish themselves from the commoners. Breaking these rules, especially consistently would result in being socially shunned by their peers, and they would lose the status in society they once had.


First, not my thread. Second, the OP, the basis of the thread, was a commentary / venting rather than request for punitive actions. Third, I never said anything was or should be actionable, only that there are those who choose to ignore etiquette and abuse the consideration others generally offer. The correct way to farm mats? Go to node, gather. Etiquette doesn't describe a proper way of executing the task, but rather the way of doing (or not doing) it given the context of other people to the situation. As to the guild thing, I don't expect any guilds would boot someone based on complaints of such activity, which only contributes further to the total lack of consequence for your actions, allowing you to continue to do so burdened by nothing than your (nearly complete lack of) conscience. I also don't expect that any guilds would take pride in your doing it either, as a guild's reputation is reflective of that of its members.

I see it more like this: There is one box of Frosted Flakes left on the shelf at a supermarket. A woman is walking towards the cereal with her children and stops next to the cereal but does not block it from you. She then is distracted by the child, and you walk up and take the one box and proceed to buy it. Is it not there for her to get at that time, but she'll easily be able to find it elsewhere, or even at that same location later. Your solution is that her reaction to you taking the cereal is to make a scene about how she was totally going to buy that and you swooped in to take it.

So yes, in my mind you come off as a little crazy.

More like there's a lady standing with an arm outstretched towards the sole box on that shelf, has her head turned towards her child, and you quickly reach up and grab it.

And if you're going to make a case for me seeming a little crazy, please make points of evidence based on what I said and the context in which I said it, not on misrepresentations or generalizations. The point I addressed was the breach of conventionally normative behavior and how it compares to real life situations; I spoke of no existing and suggested no future actions that might be taken against those who commit said breaches.
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18 Blood Elf Paladin
80
01/03/2011 3:36 PMPosted by Zandara
I guess I'm a CRIMINAL, but I don't gotta say a word, I just flip em the bird I keep going, I don't take sh*t from no one.


I'm guessing that's true except for your mother when she tells you its bedtime, your fourth grade teacher when she tells you to sit, your big sister when she kicks your ass....


preacher, preacher, fourth grade teacher? you can't teach me a gosh damn thing cause i watch tv and comcast cable. you cant stop me from having these thoughts. and you cant stop me from topping all charts.
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18 Blood Elf Paladin
80
01/04/2011 11:50 AMPosted by Schizmism
Try mining on a pvp server!

A criminal act? Not at all. As big explained it through his exuberant display of mental masterbation "analagous actions"?, also doubtful. Seems like a case of first come first serve, survival of the fittest if you will (I'm sure many of you won't, and it's ok, that conditioning is hard to break free of).

Your ethics will not protect you the next time Gavino swoops in to mine that node (not to mention so many other places in life), mining correctly and cc'ing will, evolve yourself, no one will do it for you.


although i appreciate the support, i think it is important to point out that all i have done so far is post lyrics to an eminem song and changed a few words. who know his lyrics could be so though provoking? who knew the butthurt could flow so strongly?
Edited by Gavino on 1/4/2011 12:13 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
8325
01/03/2011 4:30 PMPosted by Bigslick

And your 'fact' is mistaken. Gathering professions are not designed as a means for competition between players, but as a profession, meaning a means to accumulate materials which might be used directly or sold/traded towards sustaining a livelihood. The quantiy of resources are limited only over time. Taking someone's node from under them while they fend off a mob to be able to loot it would be seen as a very shady business practice if analagous action were taken in a real world venture, though much to your relief it wouldn't be seen as illegal.


Of course it is meant to promote competition (and faction rivalry). Archaeology shows that blizzard knows how to and is able to make a profession which doesn't require competition. They could very easily make it so you could tag a resource node like you can tag a mob.

I also disagree about the 'shady business tactics' comment. Different businesses/people have different impediments in their way, even when trying to reach the same goal. If your competition has a power outage do you stop working until they get their electricity running again?

I personally think all the real world analogies fail. It is a game. If I 'steal' a node from someone (no gathering professions btw, just sayin) what does that do to the other person? I might cause them to POSSIBLY have to spend a few more minutes playing a game that they are playing of their own free will. If it frustrates you too much, go do one of the many other activities you can do in game, play a different game, read a book, watch a movie, get laid, whatever, but get over it.

If you don't like the style of competition, there are plenty of other options. PVP servers have a completely different style of competition for resource nodes, as do other games.

If you want to talk about courtesy, how about complaining about the douches who pull a bunch of mobs in a pug heroic and then leave.

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85 Tauren Druid
4555
I generally do NOT CARE AT ALL about alliance being on a node even if they already start casting I swoop down gather and get away with my herbs....thos herbs arent your till they are in your bags, you never played on a pvp server lol every node is a fight its crazy.

And it sometimes happen I see an horde player fighting something to get the node I gather it and give them back (just in case an alli woul dtry to steal it :D) yes I am that nice but often they say no its alright :S, but at least my intention was good. The only people I do not like are same faction people that see me on a node, they come with their big ass proto-drakes and start gathering the node I was already on....I know its not my node BUT infortunately for them I have a 0.5 sec cast time instead of 2 sec :D EVERY tiem they fail.....love tauren racial.

But srly when I see an horde I do not fight for the node, when its alli I agther target them and /lol, /salute, /love, /lick, /no them and go away laughing maniacally (not the last part....maybe ...anyway lol)
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7540
I had the joy of being spit on in Tol barad 2 days ago. Why might you ask?

I was working on the croc dailys group with a skinner. This ally druid and another kept running up and grabbing the skins of our kills so I stopped looting them completely and left 1 piece on them so they could not steal the skins. They didn't even wait a second but jumped on my dead target as I was looting. I got tired of it.

So I lol'd at them.

I have been on my hunter ( who is a skinner ) and had ally try to jump my target as I looted to try and skin before I could. At least wait until I walk away from the dead thing before you try and take it.
Edited by Paramoré on 1/7/2011 9:35 AM PST
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18 Orc Warrior
100
Artaiosniul. did you ever find someone who was selling that common courtesy you were looking for?
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