Tol Barad Honor Change

90 Dwarf Rogue
also maybe you should shut it down till you fix it as not to give one faction such an advantage with commendations and extra gear as well as doing the raid and getting drops. people are starting to lose interest once this happens tol barad will always be fail
83 Blood Elf Paladin
There is no pleasing us people? Are you happy with the garbage PvP they call Tol Barad?! It's like winning AB by defending Farm only... GTFO
01/11/2011 10:53 AMPosted by Roflologist
What you are doing is confusing two seperate issues. The first issue is Blizzard wants LEGITIMATE interest in the ownership of Tol Barad. This is accomplished by giving rewards to the Defender. If there is no incentive there is no competition. This is common sense.

The second issue, and the one you are having problems with, is that Tol Barad is unfair to the Attackers.

This is unfortunate for you, because if Blizzard wants LEGITIMATE interest in the ownership in Tol Barad, it can only come by giving both of those to the Defender. It must be hard to attack, and there must be great bonuses for winning on Defense.

How is it confusing two issues? To ensure competition there must be incentive to control the territory. We both agree on this.

They have said their intention is for the defense to have an advantage, and their incentive is a lot more commendations and access to a raid that provides PVP and tier PVE gear. That should be all the incentive needed to defend since you know if you lose it the odds are stacked against you.

Why do they need more honor on top of all of that? Like I said before, I'm baffled at the design philosophy as it will only hurt server balance, but if your argument is that they need additional rewards then I'm of the opinion that there is currently enough there.

The attacking side will almost always be the underpowered faction on a server, they will be underpowered with the odds of the battleground stacked against them. They deserve to receive a better reward if they're able to somehow win control of the zone.
Edited by Shrilla on 1/11/2011 11:02 AM PST
100 Draenei Shaman
Lol you people...I had NO problem entering any TB and did about 3-4 to finish my suit of already mostly Bloodthirsty anyway.

Stop whining, it's annoying. WoW bgs have always been nothing but a grind since day one. WoW pvp has never been as good as other games (DAoC). Continue to grind and get your gear and then arena. WoW's ideas of any type of siege is absolutely horrendous and they should have never attempted to create it in the first place.

You can totally avoid TB and still get your gear.
30 Worgen Druid
If you don't like it, the don't play it.
And stop complaining about queue times. Just faction change.
All of my TB queues are near instant, and my Random BG queues ARE instant.

But i agree that TB must be fixed. it's crazy.
Edited by Toybox on 1/11/2011 11:09 AM PST
01/11/2011 11:04 AMPosted by Roflologist
The attacking side will almost always be the underpowered faction on a server, they will be underpowered with the odds of the battleground stacked against them. They deserve to receive a better reward if they're able to somehow win control of the zone.

Then they can simply limit the number of attackers that can join. This has nothing to do with the Honor reward for defending.

This is how you are confusing the two issues, therefore your problem needs to be with the queuing algorithm, not the incentives.

I cannot be more clear than that.

I'm going to agree to disagree since I think our arguments are flying over each others head.

My point is that the side with the advantage in the battleground should not receive better rewards, I don't understand how that can be argued. There are ways to keep interest in controlling the zone without throwing honor at it. Right now with people farming commendations for trinkets, mounts, or whatever else, there is more than enough. Throw in the raid that drops tier gear and you're set.

Once the expansion goes on for a while the only incentive will be the raid and that might be a problem, but that could be fixed by updating rewards to keep it current.
You want it to be challenging, I get that. You want it to be meaningful, I get that. But to make it such an uphill battle, I don't get. I hope these fixes work and help balance things, but just to let you know, I've personally seen a good 50 people that I once sieged Tol Barad with just give up because we were tired of losing again, and again, and again. I must have only won one or two times and it's been a bloody fortnight sense the last. It is nearly impossible to win unless you get underhanded and fight at about 4 in the morning when most the big shots are still asleep. And even with 45 against 30ish, it's still incredibly difficult to win. Where-as it takes a small amount of coordination and skill to defend, it takes an extrodinary amount of bot skill and planning to win. It is not challenging at all to defend, I mean when you have 10 people sipping on drinks in warden's vigil and you are still winning when the other team is working their bums off? That's not very fun for both sides.
Edited by Mortuss on 1/11/2011 1:29 PM PST
85 Human Paladin
im also saying that the drop of the honor bonus is ridiculous, 1800 to 360 is such a large drop that fighting your ass off to win as the attacking team has almost no incentive besides being able to do the daily's in there. a more reasonable drop would have been slightly helpful so as to avoid ppl getting full pvp gear in a week, put it at like 500 or something more desirable.
90 Draenei Paladin
Definitely fix Draenei Shammys, mine is jacked up in PvP
90 Draenei Paladin
360 points for that hard a win is too little, just as 1800 is too much. Heck, if it were 700ish, I think everyone would be happier than they are now.
100 Night Elf Druid
I like that Blizzard is trying to fix the problem. However, they keep trying to fix things without finishing (That should change in 4.1 though). They want to change tol barad a bit, so they decreased the honor in anticipation for the next change, but they did not fix the actual game. The have done it a bit with the class fixes as well (Unholy DKs got a str nerf, with no mastery improvement to compensate.)
Thanks for making this a place I will never set foot in again. Soon it will be as empty as wintergrasp.
85 Night Elf Rogue
It doesnt matter, its too late already. I personally already have full bloodthirsty and almost a few pieces of vicious. That honor was really wayyyyy too much. Blizz should not give such huge rewards due to farming issues, also do not reduce it by so much that everyone will just stop doing the battle. Just a thought =]

By the way...Thanks for the sub buff!! haha. Hoping to see more QQ about sub rogues hurting...
100 Night Elf Hunter
*In reply to Rothbar's page 1 post :)

I think Rogues are unfairly matched against hunters.. Maybe Rogues need a longer sap/stun/+%poison buff.. In fact, maybe rogues should come with a pet too, stealthed only of course :P
Edited by Seregwethrin on 1/11/2011 10:58 PM PST
85 Goblin Shaman
@grenade: fix ele shaman ? ele shaman are more than ok!
100 Tauren Warrior
01/11/2011 10:58 AMPosted by Aragson
There is no pleasing us people? Are you happy with the garbage PvP they call Tol Barad?! It's like winning AB by defending Farm only... GTFO

this seriously

Lost 3 TB's in a row attacking with all towers destroyed 2 bases fully capped and the 3rd 75% capped in our favor when timer ran out.

At some point is blizz ever going to fix the freaking victory condition?
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