10 or 25 man's which is harder and why?

85 Orc Hunter
6210
- You probably had to switch melee to the parasites on 25m Magmaw because of raid comp.


Actually we just had a hunter kite all the 100 gazillion parasites the entire fight and didn't kill any of them =)

Thoughts on the 2/1 ratio of 10 mans v/s 25s that are 11/12 or better?
Edited by Jaxarale on 12/31/2010 8:42 PM PST
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12/31/2010 8:39 PMPosted by Jaxarale
Thoughts on the 2/1 ratio of 10 mans v/s 25s that are 11/12 or better?


Those numbers make perfect sense but I don't think it proves the point you were trying to.

Apx number 25 man guilds on wowprogress - 2500
Apx number 10 man guilds on wowprogress - 12000

I would expect that ratio with those numbers
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12/31/2010 8:38 PMPosted by Torraviin
sorry to correct you Yozda, but the 25 night with 16 wipes we were attempting Omnitron, the first time we visited Magmaw was during the 10m run Jax is talking about


I'm going by http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/c63lhwrbiqc8ou84/
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85 Orc Hunter
6210
Ya, I was not talking about a ratio percentage. I was taking a set point 11/12 progression that shows 2 to 1 or greater progression is on 10 man.
We can discuss all day ratio's and things of that nature but making a cut off point of 12/12 or 11/12 shows a huge disparity in progression 10v25. Not really trying to prove a point just sharing the information that I found interesting. =)

I still haven't seen any strong evidence that 25s require more complex strategies.


Wish we had some people that have actually downed the same bosses on 10's and 25's to fill us in on which are harder...

I crack myself up sometimes!
Edited by Jaxarale on 12/31/2010 9:46 PM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
7115
FISHIES!! NOMNOMNOM
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85 Tauren Paladin
7115
oh and happy new year everyone! Cheers
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85 Orc Hunter
6210
I love Blizz mods!

Happy new year all!
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This may come off as insulting, which I do not intend, but part of the reason that you find 25 man to seem more difficult is that on any of your 25 man kills you do not have more than 3 people putting up numbers that place them in the top 200 for their class and spec on World of Logs whether it be for hps or dps. I will leave the reason for that up to others to determine.
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90 Tauren Druid
7860
We'll have to tell our DPS to stand in fire so they can do more dmg, also giving the healers a chance to increase their HPS.
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85 Troll Rogue
7505
It all depends on who is in what raid with what other players. Self-accountability is the most important factor in a raid environment, and accumulating 2.5x more players with the know-how of his or her class, the fight's mechanics, and the chemistry gained by raiding with your peers would by definition be more difficult than the previous discussion of only competing in a 10-man raid.

Also, the main reason more guilds have split from being 25man focused in latter Wrath and early Cata is this very idea. More people believe that 10s will be easier than 25s in difficulty, at least until a certain gearing point has been reached that the level of difficulty is negatable and loot will be more easily obtainable.
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01/02/2011 1:40 PMPosted by Zulrang
We'll have to tell our DPS to stand in fire so they can do more dmg, also giving the healers a chance to increase their HPS.


Only a sith deals in absolutes
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90 Tauren Druid
7860
I was mainly blown away by someone using meters, even HEALING meters, in a debate.
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Whats wrong with using meters? We all know that they aren't the only thing that matter but they are part of the equation. If they didn't matter most guilds wouldn't log and analyze them.
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Meters don't say everything, of course. However, in a hyperbolic example of one player doing 100 dps and another player doing 10,000 dps, I imagine most people would agree the player doing 100 dps is either doing something wrong or just isn't very good (or both).

In realistic terms, if a raid group is doing only 65-75% of the mean raid dps for a given encounter, it may be one of the reasons that such a group is wiping over 20 times on the first boss of a raid and may also lead to people drawing the same conclusions as in the first example.
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why does it matter exactly whether or not 25-mans are harder than 10-mans? you have got to have a pretty grand sense of self-importance to want to sit here and prove (brag about) how your accomplishment required more skill and effort than someone else's accomplishment.

if you kill a boss, and all you can think about is how superior you are to other groups because you killed him in a 25-man group and not a 10-man group or vice versa, then I just think that is so sad and a little disgusting. when we kill a boss, after cleaning up where I peed from excitement, I just feel great that we killed the boss and all healer loot was defaulted to me.

if your recruitment thread is intruded upon by a troll, then you ignore him, not dedicate a whole new thread to him, unless you just wanted an opportunity to 'debate' about how your boss kills are somehow more momentous.

and if a 25-man group wants to dismiss the progression of a 10-man group, then so what! any active 10-man group currently on cairne is receiving loot faster and pleasuring themselves more often to boss kills than the 25-man ones, and that is all that really matters.

not really, but it is still enjoyable, and this is cairne. we're not getting any world firsts, and we're not even on heroic modes yet, so who really cares. if a 25-man group wants to blame their slower progression solely on the fact that they are a 25-man group rather than a 10-man one, then everyone else should just mind their own beeswax!

I am embarrassed that you guys have been able to discuss something so silly at such length!


also, healing metres are really important! I cream myself every time I get above 2k hps.

p.s. 25-mans are harder!
Edited by Minx on 1/4/2011 12:50 PM PST
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