How can people learn?

85 Tauren Paladin
7855
01/06/2011 8:31 AMPosted by Polymorpher
wowhead.com
tankspot.com
wowwiki.com

The internet has much better resources for learning than in game.


Love how people are still arguing when this is one of the hands down best advice right here. This is a game, take it easy. Reading a sentence about what a boss does isn't going to kill you.

"X will cast a fireball at a random target for 50000 damage"

Was that hard? No.

Take it easy, suck it up and search up the fights before you enter a dungeon.

PS. Love how the people that argue against this post are all very under geared players, that don't take their time learning what a boss does.
85 Tauren Paladin
3855
My main problem is people not saying they don't know content, I don't mind explaining it.
86 Worgen Mage
9620
No, not one of them ever goes out and just does after watching me, I have to see them do it with supervison even on there first time out.

They all have to actually do things before they are allowed to do it on there own.

Kind of maybe the problem overall in the game there is no where to learn except in the actually dungeon


It is true that they won't get better at the fight until they practice it, but getting better at a fight and knowing what's going to happen are different things.
What the OP is talking about is knowing what's going to happen. He's asking people about what's going to happen not about his performance for the fight getting better. He never actually does the fight because people expect him to know how to do it.

And believe me, you can know how to do a fight without doing it.
A paramedic in training can know how to save someone's life without doing it, just the execution can be tricky.
85 Human Paladin
2765
01/06/2011 10:13 PMPosted by Psykron
wowhead.com
tankspot.com
wowwiki.com

The internet has much better resources for learning than in game.


Love how people are still arguing when this is one of the hands down best advice right here. This is a game, take it easy. Reading a sentence about what a boss does isn't going to kill you.

"X will cast a fireball at a random target for 50000 damage"

Was that hard? No.

Take it easy, suck it up and search up the fights before you enter a dungeon.

PS. Love how the people that argue against this post are all very under geared players, that don't take their time learning what a boss does.


/facepalm

Yes, because this is our bestest, best character EVA. And you are so leet that you can tell from our GEAR how awesome our SKILL is.

Also, reading about a boss in a RAID is fair enough. I learn every raid encounter ahead of time. It's a raid after all, and you'd be letting your guildies down if you didn't know the fight backwards, regardless of whether they explain it or not.

But you fail to realize the point the OP was making - he was talking about DUNGEONS. Who the hell reads up on a boss encounter for a DUNGEON? Especially a non-endgame one?

And it really isn't that hard to say "Avoid X stuff, this guy will do a stun every Y seconds, make sure there's a buff up on the tank, and don't stand near his tail". Wow. That took me 8 seconds to type. 8. How long does it take to run back as a ghost?
85 Worgen Death Knight
4175
thats strange I've only come across like less jerks and more nice people in wow but the jerks are more nastier than others though
85 Draenei Paladin
5035
01/06/2011 10:10 PMPosted by Ginane
Kind of maybe the problem overall in the game there is no where to learn except in the actually dungeon.


It's difficult to solo-simulate group play, yes. But there are some tricks Bliz could try, if they had a mind to. Trainers, Simulations, NPC groups.

I like the "boss fight replay" idea, particularly if a (ghosted?) player/spectator could watch the action, and pause it to get an explanation for anything they don't understand.

The big problem I see is that people could learn the basics, if the game did a better job of encouraging players to instance at much lower levels (when the mechanics are simpler and mistakes less crippling) and continue instancing throughout the leveling process.
90 Goblin Priest
6590
You have to meet people halfway. Its not everyone elses responsibility to look up the fights, tell you how to play your class, what rotation is optimal, what gear works for your class... these are things you as a player have to put effort into doing for yourself. If there is one thing the wow community has disdain for, its people who expect others to do for them things they could do for themselves, or in short, people who want to be carried.

Yes, you need real play experience in the dungeons to be good at them, but running a dungeon 100 times won't help you if you have no idea what your doing in the first place. It starts with putting the effort in to read up on what your supposed to do. Raiders don't down bosses on the first try, but if they didn't take the time to research fights before hand they wouldn't down any bosses at all.

Random people in LFD aren't going to care about your development as a player, and honestly, they shouldn't. You queue as LFD to perform a job in a group, and if you can't perform that job adequately you shouldn't be queuing until you can. Its not the responsibility of strangers to train you how to play the game. That may be cold, but that is how it is. Once you know the basics of what your doing, however, you'll have no problem doing your job and contributing to the group even in a new instance. Until that time, read up and group with friends and guildies. You shouldn't have any trouble being a contributing member to a group if you know what your doing, even with no instance experience.

I've never met anyone in wow who honestly put the time and effort in to learn the game and failed. It just doesn't happen. You just have to put the effort in.
85 Tauren Paladin
7855
01/06/2011 10:16 PMPosted by Aysrael
And it really isn't that hard to say "Avoid X stuff, this guy will do a stun every Y seconds, make sure there's a buff up on the tank, and don't stand near his tail". Wow. That took me 8 seconds to type. 8. How long does it take to run back as a ghost?





Love how people are still arguing when this is one of the hands down best advice right here. This is a game, take it easy. Reading a sentence about what a boss does isn't going to kill you.

"X will cast a fireball at a random target for 50000 damage"

Was that hard? No.

Take it easy, suck it up and search up the fights before you enter a dungeon.

PS. Love how the people that argue against this post are all very under geared players, that don't take their time learning what a boss does.


/facepalm

Yes, because this is our bestest, best character EVA. And you are so leet that you can tell from our GEAR how awesome our SKILL is.

Also, reading about a boss in a RAID is fair enough. I learn every raid encounter ahead of time. It's a raid after all, and you'd be letting your guildies down if you didn't know the fight backwards, regardless of whether they explain it or not.

But you fail to realize the point the OP was making - he was talking about DUNGEONS. Who the hell reads up on a boss encounter for a DUNGEON? Especially a non-endgame one?

And it really isn't that hard to say "Avoid X stuff, this guy will do a stun every Y seconds, make sure there's a buff up on the tank, and don't stand near his tail". Wow. That took me 8 seconds to type. 8. How long does it take to run back as a ghost?


Lol, regardless of heroic dungeon or normal dungeon as the player, YOU SHOULD research the fight before hand. Some players don't bother explaining at all cause they expect you to search these fights up. I as a player, really going to go in depth about bosses like Baron Ashbury (SFK first boss) because the mechanic is difficult. You could say just interrupt, but skills like Stay of execution would need to be interrupted after 2 seconds.

It would also save me time if the player had research this before they try out heroics so we could clear the heroic faster. Face the reality, humanity is selfish. Helpful is one thing, but many players get off work to run a heroic and only seeing that they would need to explain to this player what this boss does when he/she could have researched it.

Also, the way I see it. If you are not geared for heroics and complaining about people not explaining fights, you are not dedicated to raiding. I have no means to put down players, but that's how i see it in my server/friends.

Edit*: Also, I was very nice back in WotLK but as i explain more and more, i wipe more and more. People just don't learn, so I gave up trying to teach new players what to do in each heroic. Waste of time.
Edited by Psykron on 1/6/2011 10:30 PM PST
90 Goblin Warlock
0
If I'm ever going to quit this game permanently. It will be because of the community. It won't have anything to do with game mechanics or content or anything else.

I have never seen so much tolerance for rude, anti-social, elitist, just plain bad-mannered behavior in my entire life. And I use to work at a place that served a prison. No exaggeration. Really, the attitudes are worse than convicts. Most of them were actually nice unless they had a reason (real or imagined) not to be.

My first WoW experience after a long break was right at the end of Wrath. I joined a group for one of the new instances added. I said that it was new to me. I got so much grief, I just left the group. I was very close to never buying Cata at all.....and I'm not even a new player. I was healing in Molten Core when these jackasses were still in diaper school. I know how to play, I just hadn't been in that dungeon yet.

It's always been bad, but since the end of Wrath, it's become a lot worse. Join a guild? It's not that easy these days. How do you actually meet people to join with if people never interact? You pretty much have to trust someone's guild spam or go outside of the game to look them up. You don't really ever meet friends from just playing the game anymore, and that's a huge problem. Cross-server stuff is to blame for that, as well as the increased rotten attitudes (in my opinion).
I agree.
85 Human Paladin
2765
01/06/2011 10:18 PMPosted by Senai
But you fail to realize the point the OP was making - he was talking about DUNGEONS. Who the hell reads up on a boss encounter for a DUNGEON? Especially a non-endgame one?


Every good player should.

Disagree with me? You're part of the problem, enjoy your stay.


Yeah, we have things called "lives", and can't spend every waking moment reading up on WoW stuff. As I said, raiding is different as you are "committed" to learning the fights, but dungeons are a whole 'nother story.

I'm asking for ONE explanation. ONE. Then you know the fight! And you can tell it to other people from there! It's not that hard. Usually when I come across a boss I have not done before, I ask what is so special with this one. I usually just get told what my class needs to do about it - ie. make sure you don't stand in the fire, and pop cds at 20%. I instantly know what to do from there. Not that hard.

But it's people like you who are too leet to give people a break. Everyone who disagrees with you is part of the problem, apparently.
85 Draenei Paladin
5035
Posted by Luniara
Eh you got 84 lvls before endgame content, that's enough time for noob and newb players to learn the ropes.


If you soloed the entire way (as most people do), you still don't know a damn thing about how to be a functional member of an instance team.
Edited by Deviation on 1/6/2011 10:32 PM PST
86 Worgen Mage
9620
So, back to the ORIGINAL question. How are people expected to learn new content, roles, skills, if the ones that can help refuse to?


So what about the first people who played wow?
They learned it themselves, they didn't have anyone higher level.
Through trial and error they learned their roles and skills. Just because you have people who you seemingly expect to teach you 'sup, doesn't mean that's what's supposed to happen.

Use your brain and learn.
If school taught us anything it's to learn information ourselves.
Unless you had no basic education and never heard of the concept learning or adapting.
85 Human Paladin
2765
01/06/2011 10:28 PMPosted by Psykron
And it really isn't that hard to say "Avoid X stuff, this guy will do a stun every Y seconds, make sure there's a buff up on the tank, and don't stand near his tail". Wow. That took me 8 seconds to type. 8. How long does it take to run back as a ghost?




/facepalm

Yes, because this is our bestest, best character EVA. And you are so leet that you can tell from our GEAR how awesome our SKILL is.

Also, reading about a boss in a RAID is fair enough. I learn every raid encounter ahead of time. It's a raid after all, and you'd be letting your guildies down if you didn't know the fight backwards, regardless of whether they explain it or not.

But you fail to realize the point the OP was making - he was talking about DUNGEONS. Who the hell reads up on a boss encounter for a DUNGEON? Especially a non-endgame one?

And it really isn't that hard to say "Avoid X stuff, this guy will do a stun every Y seconds, make sure there's a buff up on the tank, and don't stand near his tail". Wow. That took me 8 seconds to type. 8. How long does it take to run back as a ghost?


Lol, regardless of heroic dungeon or normal dungeon as the player, YOU SHOULD research the fight before hand. Some players don't bother explaining at all cause they expect you to search these fights up. I as a player, really going to go in depth about bosses like Baron Ashbury (SFK first boss) because the mechanic is difficult. You could say just interrupt, but skills like Stay of execution would need to be interrupted after 2 seconds.


No. Firstly, if you're doing a Heroic before doing the same on Normal, you're doing something wrong. If you have already done it on Normal, you should get the basic jist of it. Therefore, all you need is a primer on any new/extended abilities. It's not that difficult to do.

It would also save me time if the player had research this before they try out heroics so we could clear the heroic faster. Face the reality, humanity is selfish. Helpful is one thing, but many players get off work to run a heroic and only seeing that they would need to explain to this player what this boss does when he/she could have researched it.


Yeah, humanity is real selfish.

Also, the way I see it. If you are not geared for heroics and complaining about people not explaining fights, you are not dedicated to raiding. I have no means to put down players, but that's how i see it in my server/friends.


I agree, but that's not the point. In fact, I don't believe we were even discussing Heroics in the first place. The OP was saying people weren't giving others a fair go in dungeons. Dungeons. Not Heroics.
85 Tauren Paladin
7855
01/06/2011 10:30 PMPosted by Aysrael


Every good player should.

Disagree with me? You're part of the problem, enjoy your stay.


Yeah, we have things called "lives", and can't spend every waking moment reading up on WoW stuff. As I said, raiding is different as you are "committed" to learning the fights, but dungeons are a whole 'nother story.

I'm asking for ONE explanation. ONE. Then you know the fight! And you can tell it to other people from there! It's not that hard. Usually when I come across a boss I have not done before, I ask what is so special with this one. I usually just get told what my class needs to do about it - ie. make sure you don't stand in the fire, and pop cds at 20%. I instantly know what to do from there. Not that hard.

But it's people like you who are too leet to give people a break. Everyone who disagrees with you is part of the problem, apparently.


The way you speak of it, You rely on others to explain you the fight. So I want to ask, if everyone relies on each other, who's going to explain the fight?
85 Human Paladin
2765


Yeah, we have things called "lives", and can't spend every waking moment reading up on WoW stuff. As I said, raiding is different as you are "committed" to learning the fights, but dungeons are a whole 'nother story.

I'm asking for ONE explanation. ONE. Then you know the fight! And you can tell it to other people from there! It's not that hard. Usually when I come across a boss I have not done before, I ask what is so special with this one. I usually just get told what my class needs to do about it - ie. make sure you don't stand in the fire, and pop cds at 20%. I instantly know what to do from there. Not that hard.

But it's people like you who are too leet to give people a break. Everyone who disagrees with you is part of the problem, apparently.


Learn to be productive.

Going to queue for a specific instance? read on it before you queue or while waiting to queue. Problem solved. While you were leveling you should have done all the 80-84 instances just so you know what to expect when you start doing them in heroics. It's called not being deadweight.

Why would other people waste time explaining fights to you because you couldn't take the time to look at a 4min video? Before you go and claim explanations take 10 seconds, they don't. If they did, then they'd be so easy you wouldn't need any help and can just wing it.


You obviously don't read what I post further than the first line, so I'm not going to respond to your post with anything other than this line and a smiley face.

:)
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