How can people learn?

85 Draenei Shaman
6065
01/20/2011 7:28 PMPosted by Lylirra
I sure wish I could get some of those rose-colored glasses you have on.


I crafted them out of good nature, love, patience, elbow macaroni, and glitter. I'd make you some, but their power comes from within.


As a bitter, heartless, petty bastard, all i can say to this is: <3 you Lilyrra.
90 Human Rogue
15670
Go do your own research. You must've been one of those kids who never took notes and leeched off everyone else.


I assume you are aware that this is a video game and not a university course?

There shouldn’t be note taking or any sort of research involved just to play the stinking game.
The game is or at least was purely for entertainment purposes, I find that having to research, study or take notes is absurd and totally counter productive to being entertaining.


Are you serious?

This isn't nintendogs, this is a game centred around min/max. It's the game's nature to be one to study so you can maximize performance.

Anything centred around competitive or co-operative play requires you to know how to play your role. WoW is no different. If you honestly think that every game ever made requires no learning curve except for WoW then I seriously question your gaming tenure and general mental stability.

Your "entertainment" statement is absolutely baffling relative to this game.

Take 5mins and try to think of all the games you've played and how many of them have required you to either look something up, or made you head to gamefaqs to get somewhere/something.

In your world you clearly get 2000gamerscore or a platinum trophy just with one playthrough of any game ever...
Edited by Zeemus on 1/20/2011 8:16 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
Most other games have training modes or other features that allow noobs to learn the system. WoW isn't as transparent as those games and needs some sort of advanced tutorial system. The game definitely has gotten more complicated since vanilla to the point where it must be overwhelming for a novice.
85 Troll Mage
5820
01/20/2011 8:06 PMPosted by Talatsu
I liked Deepholm, nice design. Everything else was meh. BC and wrath were best looking xpacs imo.

As for classes and balance in generall: GC is making game according to his liking now. We just need to rename it to World of Ghostcrawler and we are good.

I am sorry Blues, this xpac was disappointing by far.

lets all shoot the messenger!!!
Idiot.
90 Human Rogue
15670
01/20/2011 8:19 PMPosted by Sunforge
Most other games have training modes or other features that allow noobs to learn the system. WoW isn't as transparent as those games and needs some sort of advanced tutorial system. The game definitely has gotten more complicated since vanilla to the point where it must be overwhelming for a novice.


Staying out of fire/dust/voids doesn't change in complication from when they were happening in Vanilla to when they're happening now. Boss fights are also significantly less complicated than Vanilla.

Do you see any bosses that can wipe an entire raid with chain lightning? No? Because C'thun could, and still can mangle you for 1million nature damage on a random cast that you have to be constantly aware of your range from the other 39 people in your raid, for the entire fight.

39 people's range for chain lightning, not 4 people for getting out of a dust cloud on the first boss in Stonecore.

Every boss in heroics are either "stay out of the stuff on the ground", "move away from the aoe", or "take out the adds". There is nothing remotely complicated about boss battles in these heroics except MAYBE that dragon in Vortex Pinnacle.

If you're referring to class play as being more complicated, yes, I'm sure REDUCING the talent trees significantly made classes more complicated.....
Edited by Zeemus on 1/20/2011 8:25 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
How about you try some of the current raid content then go back and do something like MC (both of which are first tier content). That would be a better comparison than C'thun which is third tier. Oh wait doesn't look like you even stepped into the current content...
90 Human Rogue
15670
01/20/2011 8:26 PMPosted by Sunforge
How about you try some of the current raid content then go back and do something like MC (both of which are first tier content). That would be a better comparison than C'thun which is third tier. Oh wait doesn't look like you even stepped into the current content...


Yes because, like the OP, I surely can't be aware of boss fights without having been IN the content itself.

I read up, unlike the OP. I know the fights in Bastion and BWD, please explain the new mechanics that we haven't seen before that are more threatening than a 1m chain lightning between 40 people. I'm DYING to hear it.
Edited by Zeemus on 1/20/2011 8:29 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
I don't see why you are so fixated on a mechanic that was patched and afterwards was relatively easy to mitigate. The only reason it was an issue was due to the volume of players. You have to concede to the point that honestly the game isn't novice friendly and that perhaps there should be stuff in-game to better train players. Not all cases of fail can be attributed to "standing in the fire". A lot of it comes down to people not knowing how to manage CC, failure to interrupt abilities, target switching/focus fire, standing at the wrong location at the wrong time, etc etc. I think that a good percentage of bad can be fixed with such a tutorial. It would only improve your game experience honestly so I don't see why you are so opposed to the idea.

Edit: I would love to see less bad in the game. I just feel that it can be fixed rather than bandaged through the dungeon kick feature.
Edited by Sunforge on 1/20/2011 8:42 PM PST
90 Human Rogue
15670
I'm not opposed to the idea, but it's still a crutch bad players are whining to get instead of looking up stuff themselves during their 45min queues.

Why bother asking for a feature to be implemented that'd take Blizzard until the next xpac to do, when you can basically teach yourself everything you need to know about your class in 30mins flat by going to elitistjerks?

The tools are there, everyone is too lazy to use them and are still in "I'm entitled to everything" mode from WotLK. So they instead expect everyone else to waste time on them instead of them wasting their own time.

There is no conceivable difference between spending an hour learning your class from webpages compared to fighting dummies in a training field for an hour to have Blizzard tell you "congratulations, you should now know how to play your class". In either case, you still may not. The education will be there, but its still down to using that education while actually playing.

The problem is the OP won't even take the time to gather that education and instead figures everyone else should give it to him instead.
Edited by Zeemus on 1/20/2011 8:46 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
You do have a point. I tend to stick to guild only runs for that very reason. When I do pug I tend to abuse the queue tool until I find one in progress to mitigate time lost. I can understand where you are coming from since you dont have that option. From my personal experience, I have seen more fail in this expansion than any of the previous releases so that leads me to believe that there are either more new players or the content is much harder. I still feel that BC had the hardest initial content and the initial WotLK content by comparison was faceroll.
Edited by Sunforge on 1/20/2011 8:54 PM PST
90 Human Rogue
15670
You do have a point. I tend to stick to guild only runs for that very reason. When I do pug I tend to abuse the queue tool until I find one in progress to mitigate time lost. I can understand where you are coming from since you dont have that option. From my personal experience, I have seen more fail in this expansion than any of the previous releases so that leads me to believe that there are either more new players or the content is much harder. I still feel that BC had the hardest initial content but w/e.


The reason this xpac has more fail is Blizzard ruined everything by giving WotLK a challenge factor of -8397025. Dumbing down more than 3/4 of the game to AOE-fests, limitless mana/threat, and very little consequence due to playing poorly, got everyone into a groove they will NOT get out of before this xpac is finished.

Everyone has, and will continue to play this game like we're still in WotLK, and will just continue to whine until Blizzard nerfs things enough to make everything feel like LK again, or until Valor/Justice gear makes heroics trivial.

In either case, people will still not know how to play.

90% of the player base isn't going to accept having to suddenly learn their class when everything was handed to them on a silver platter for the better part of two years prior.
Edited by Zeemus on 1/20/2011 8:57 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
Perhaps that should go back to the vanilla model where epics were raid only? I know they were talking about a 10m random tool awhile back which would make raiding more common place. Still, having the ability for players to learn certain things in-game would help make the player base stronger as a whole (especially if you provided some sort of incentive for using it). I feel that the content in it's current state is rewarding and shouldn't be nerfed for the sake of the bad.
85 Night Elf Warrior
6095
While I haven't read the entire 47 pages of posts I'd like to share my experience from tonight with the OP. I've just now broken into heroics (i'm late, i know :P) and tonight was my second time on a random que. Honestly, I don't have time to research every boss and trash pull so I learn on the fly.

The instance I ended up in was The Throne of Tides. I've had done this instance once or twice on regular, and am by no means a pro at it. As soon as the group logged in I noticed that all the players, while from different guilds, were from the realm Gorgonnash and apparently all knew each other.

The first thing I did, trying to be polite, was to let the group know that this was my first time here on heroic. The response i got was from the healer, who said: "Don't take unnecessary damage. :P lol" At first I though he was being smart, but as it turns out, he and the tank knew the place very well and took the time to explain every boss (as they differ from regular). I was even more surprised as we got to the final boss, to be thanked by the group for not being a "flake" warrior and leaving after the first couple wipes. And yes, we did wipe multiple times. I wasn't the only one learning lol.

I've had many experiences that have gone the same way as the OP's. But there are still great groups of people out there that don't mind taking the time to teach others. Keep looking and keep playin OP, good people are here for sure.
85 Human Priest
6780
A lot of people actually read up on instances and their class before heading into an instance. It's being a bit rude taking up other players' time because you don't feel the necessity to do the same.
85 Troll Hunter
7955
Having just read all the blue comments in this post i have come to the conculsion that the blue posters and mods are bias to the normal player and all for the elitist well all I can say is there are 13million players of wow and there all not elitists most are just your average player and it seems that blizzard don't really care at all about it. To me subscriptions from the average player would outnumber the elitist player but going by some of the blue comments blizzard don't care about the average subscription. Rather they prefer to listen to the elitist and defend them because someone is trying to learn and they could careless about the average player well we were all noobs once and people have short memorys
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6065
The way I see it, encounters have two facets to them: stuff that you should already know as a player and stuff unique to the encounter. CCing, dispelling, interrupting abilities, focus firing adds, proper use of cooldowns, and moving out of various hazards should already be understood. It is these universal things that should be taught in "solo" instances. It is the responsibility of the player to research the unique properties of encounters. I would love to see the game more accesible to beginners while maintaining a certain degree of difficulty. That's what makes the game feel rewarding at the end of the day.
Edited by Sunforge on 1/20/2011 9:15 PM PST
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