How can people learn?

85 Orc Shaman
4730
To the original poster and many of like mind:
I'm sorry to hear that you have had a bad leveling experience here and there, and it sucks that some people are mean. But I can shed some light on why some of the wow community have become calloused towards new players.

Some of us are willing to help people out when they do not understand a dungeon, i am one of these people. I do not insta-kick when some one says they are new or ask for advice. But one thing that drives me crazy is people that are not willing to learn. Some "leet" gamers are tired of teaching those that do not want to learn.
An example: The other day I was running through heroic BRC. We get to the second fight and i ask before we start, "does every one understand this fight?". Every one says yes so we continue, we assign who stands in front of each laser to stop the adds from transforming. Well some one did not block the laser correctly because the add transformed. so we run back, and mana up, and i ask "does every one know the fight?", they all say yes, so then i ask "hunter do you know how to block the laser beam?", he say no.

The point that I"m going for is that teaching people that do not want to learn is a pain. There are a select few that say I'm new here what do i need to do. They are awesome, but few. Mostly when i try to give advise, or tips i get rude responses, or the best one is when the deny it. "kk this time plz don't stand in the fire", "i didnt!", "i rezed your body from the pile of fire in front of me :(".

It's not fair to new player to get booted and spoken down to, but its not fun to carry people that don't even want to try.
85 Night Elf Druid
7135
I've yet to be in a run where someone got kicked for asking to have the fight explained. Someone always explained, I've only had to do it once. I have however, voted to kick people who obviously didn't know the fight but didn't say anything while continually wiping us.

Also, chances are, if you're getting kicked, you're probably doing something else wrong. If someone with 13k DPS dies to a mechanic he's much less likely to be kicked then someone doing 5k DPS.
85 Worgen Druid
8065
Knowing what the boss does is entirely different than performing when it does it. You can explain the fight a hundred times to people; but idiots will still stand in the fire and not move.

I'm tellin' ya, Blizzard, ya'll need 3 raid modes:

Basic
Normal
Heroic

Where basic is very forgiving. Letting people do the fights, win without a whole lot of problems and letting them see the content.

Normal is not very forgiving. Letting people do the fights with some problems and letting them progress and getting better loot.

Heroic. Well. Heroic. Very difficult with much better loot. And achievements.
100 Blood Elf Priest
18690
The researching before the dungeon would work if:

1. You knew which one will come up next, randomly in LFD. With our long queue, we have lots of time to research.

2. If the dungeons and fights you researched Ever comes up in LFD. In the near future while you still remember which dungeon had what bosses and what was the diff with heroic mode.

Some of us aren't 16 year old with not much data in their brains so they can memorize every single loot table from every boss in every dungeon since vanilla and even what color panties Lady Vashj wears. I can barely find the freakin door to the cooking trainer.

What's wrong with Blizzard providing a cinematic run-through of dungeons? The have the know-how and hello, they programmed the game - they know what's going to happen and have everything on-hand. Watching some crappy blurry dungeon video from a rogue's viewpoint does nothing for me.

I'm not asking to log in and run whatever comes up and kill everything with no prior knowledge - I'd like my game to give me game information in-game. I'll would sit and watch/learn while I play the game - during my gaming time. Not at work...like now...surfing forums. Nope, not doing that.

90 Night Elf Hunter
7385
I have had a really good experience that I want to share. On my DK I wanted to try out some of the new instances. I qued as the tank (because I wanted to learn them) and got into one. I told the people as soon as we entered that I had never tanked or even done the instance. The people in my party were all very helpful and talked me through the fights and what to do. We only wiped once because of my error (it was the boss that you have to drag through the fire to melt his armor [quicksilver]) but we processed the fight afterward and aced it the next time. So there are nice people out there.
85 Night Elf Druid
7135
01/24/2011 12:23 PMPosted by Barand

I'm tellin' ya, Blizzard, ya'll need 3 raid modes:

Basic
Normal
Heroic


Here's what that will sound like.

"Basic is too easy"
"Normals don't give good enough loot"
"Heroics are too hard"
85 Worgen Druid
8065
01/24/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Sylvre

Here's what that will sound like.

"Basic is too easy"
"Normals don't give good enough loot"
"Heroics are too hard"

Meh. Better than "This is impossible!" for every raid thread these days.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965


01/20/2011 4:05 PMPosted by Lucang
Please put a library or something in game where there are books players can read that describe all the dungeon/raid fights.



You know who wouldn't read it? The same people that are too lazy to google "Boss X" and read how to do the fight and instead count on others to carry them. You cannot teach those that are unwilling to learn.

I'll give you an example, 3 guildmates and I queue up a random, we have heals and dps, no tank. Mind you we have all done LK on Heroic and similar ventures. Tank asks us how to do Ozruk(aka the Pug Slayer), we give him a quick rundown.

"Turn him away from the group and sidestep 'whatever smash' and then run away for Shatter." HOW HARD IS THAT?

5 tanks later, we 4 man it by kiting him around for an hour.

To their credit, all of the tanks were apologetic and left on their own accord.(we never boot anyone)

In all seriousness, I can't figure out what set of circumstances has to occur for someone to not be able to follow simple boss mechanics. And this is coming from the most patient guy in the world, I will sit in a heroic w/ noobs and try as long as they wanna try. I don't do a whole lot of pug heroics, but I feel like when I do, it's my civic duty to suffer through and do my good deed for the day.

The point is, most people don't WANT to learn. They don't WANT to get better. But queues are so long, they've been forced to tank/heal and can't get away with being afk for half the instance.




85 Blood Elf Paladin
8965
01/24/2011 12:19 PMPosted by Endtotem
To the original poster and many of like mind:
I'm sorry to hear that you have had a bad leveling experience here and there, and it sucks that some people are mean. But I can shed some light on why some of the wow community have become calloused towards new players.

Some of us are willing to help people out when they do not understand a dungeon, i am one of these people. I do not insta-kick when some one says they are new or ask for advice. But one thing that drives me crazy is people that are not willing to learn. Some "leet" gamers are tired of teaching those that do not want to learn.
An example: The other day I was running through heroic BRC. We get to the second fight and i ask before we start, "does every one understand this fight?". Every one says yes so we continue, we assign who stands in front of each laser to stop the adds from transforming. Well some one did not block the laser correctly because the add transformed. so we run back, and mana up, and i ask "does every one know the fight?", they all say yes, so then i ask "hunter do you know how to block the laser beam?", he say no.

The point that I"m going for is that teaching people that do not want to learn is a pain. There are a select few that say I'm new here what do i need to do. They are awesome, but few. Mostly when i try to give advise, or tips i get rude responses, or the best one is when the deny it. "kk this time plz don't stand in the fire", "i didnt!", "i rezed your body from the pile of fire in front of me :(".

It's not fair to new player to get booted and spoken down to, but its not fun to carry people that don't even want to try.


QFT. Beat me to it.
01/24/2011 11:53 AMPosted by Flagrun
Void Zones - check
Fire on ground - check
Interrupts - check
Frontal Cleave - check
Big Animation on Ground to Avoid - check
Adds - check
Debuff to cleanse - check
Need to use item on Boss - check
things to click - check

Every single mechanic in end game raiding or heroics or any boss is some combination of the above. There is nothing new about any boss just different ways that they use the same mechanics. The only difference between bosses is what players are required to pay attention to and this is where the failure happens.

But none of these things ever one-shotted you before you get to, say, heroic stonecore. So you could easily ignore them all.

Going mano-e-mano against a healer mob in a solo quest... sure you *could* learn to interrupt the heals... or... just keep fighting it until it runs out of mana because it can't kill you. When was the last time you actually failed (died) vs. a healer mob in the solo-able outdoor world even after letting it heal back to full 4,5,6 times in a row? Never. When was the last time you failed vs. a caster mob after letting it cast 10 uninterrupted fireballs at you? Never, you just eat/drink after that and go on to the next one. Nothing forces you to learn interrupts, it just vaguely encourages you with that opportunity. It's an opportunity to learn which is all too easily ignored.

Stand in the fire a little too long in a lower level dungeon? So what, the healer has you covered. It didn't one-shot you. Someone may complain at you "hey noob, stop standing in the fire" but dude, why so mean? We didn't wipe, chill out, we're doing fine... Again, it was an opportunity to learn something which was all too easily ignored.

So you go into cata heroics and get stonecore... and he goes underground... sure you've run into the idea of running out of the stuff that kills you, but you were never actually *required* to do that (you were only vaguely encouraged) so you're 2+ seconds too slow and get one-shotted every time. Now you are required to use your utilities, required to pay attention, and required to react, and react quickly... sure you had the opportunities for 84 previous levels, I completely agree, but there's a sudden abrupt disparity in difficulty between having an opportunity to throw an interrupt or dodge fire, and suddenly being required to do so or your entire group fails.

How can people learn to be 2 seconds faster? It takes more than academic understanding. It takes awareness and reaction time, which comes from practice (in-game, wiping), not study (on wowhead).
100 Blood Elf Priest
18690
How can people learn to be 2 seconds faster? It takes more than academic understanding. It takes awareness and reaction time, which comes from practice (in-game, wiping), not study (on wowhead).


Mmhmm. Most people learn from repetition in scripted video games and life. The same crevice opens up right after this mob passes by so you jump at this specific point on the floor at the perfect time. Reading and experiencing something is totally different.

You just can't die-rez-redo life.

85 Tauren Druid
9460
01/24/2011 10:32 AMPosted by Lylirra
We're definitely looking into ways to add more information about raid and dungeon bosses directly into the game client. For example, as discussed at BlizzCon 2010 in the Raids and Dungeons panel, we're already discussing the possibility of incorporating loot tables and boss abilities into zone maps. While "enhanced maps" are still in their formative stages, we love the idea of a player being able to access a variety of information about a specific boss -- including what it drops, what abilities it has, and maybe even some lore about who it is and why everyone in Azeroth wants to kill it -- just by opening her map and mousing over an icon.

This is all still on the horizon, of course, and would likely be something that's implemented in stages. Nevertheless, we agree that the game could provide better tools for players who are adapting to new content and are currently working to bridge that gap for the future (in a meaningful way that doesn't undermine or spoil the experience).

Please put a library or something in game where there are books players can read that describe all the dungeon/raid fights.


You know, at this point you need to have basic boss mod functionality in your standard UI, for raiding at least. It really isn't optional anymore, and your designers assume that everyone has these sorts of timers.
85 Night Elf Druid
7135
You know, at this point you need to have basic boss mod functionality in your standard UI, for raiding at least. It really isn't optional anymore, and your designers assume that everyone has these sorts of timers.


They already do. All mechanics are preceded by boss emotes that display as a warning. DBM isn't as necessary as it was in previous raids.
85 Tauren Death Knight
0
01/24/2011 10:47 AMPosted by Plop
www.wowhead.com?
www.tankspot.com?
www.thottbot.com?
Google "wow bossfights help" or anything similar and you'll get any number of helpful sources.


this
85 Orc Warrior
0
01/16/2011 10:37 AMPosted by Dotashima


go back to everquest


Maybe its you who should go play another game Ashtin,


Honestly, iv only read about 4 pages of this thread, counting the first one I posted on. I have only read 3 or 4 of the posts You have made Dotashima. But now, I would like to prove a point by fighting fire with fire. (This probably counts as trolling)

You say maybe we players that want to have some social aspect of this game should go play another game. You brand yourself with an air and attitude that claims "I'm awesome, doesn't matter what you think I'm awesome" and then act as though this game is yours to do with as you please. The other players in YOUR game are not people on the opposite end of a keyboard. They don't have feelings. There simply pigeons that exist solely for YOUR amusement, for you to use, abuse, then crush when you are bored with them. If they don't fit into YOUR perfect world, they don't have any right and should leave. If they don't bow down and worship YOU, they don't have any worth at all, and deserve only to /delete account.

Now, generally to have this attitude, comes a bit of accomplishment. How you earned it is never an issue, no, rather just that you have shiny gear, leet achievement, or that awesome rare something that everyone wants, but 1 in a million will get. Maybe your just a member of a top ranked guild because your friend in real life is part of that guild. Who knows, however, when looking at your profile I see no real accomplishments.

Inspect. Me. Look at my accomplishments, I am by no means the best, but I sit in my chair, and I do my own share of the work. I have earned all that I have, from my winning the 6th Ashes of Alar I have seen drop, to my Zin'Rokh, to my Kingslayer. My 38,300 PK's, my BC and WotLK raids, my rep factions, even my abnormally high number of deaths by falling (I have horrible luck with cliffs). I have a right to brag about my accomplishments, as do you. Or rather, you would should you have gained any. Since you do not, I am going to humbly request that you stop acting like you are 10 times better than everyone else.

When I first started out in BC, after I encountered my first general internet jackass, I looked on the forums. I found a quote that was frighteningly true, and though I cant remember it exactly I can say it was pretty close to this:

When the wolves have eaten all the lambs, the only prey left is the other wolves.
85 Orc Shaman
4630
We're definitely looking into ways to add more information about raid and dungeon bosses directly into the game client. For example, as discussed at BlizzCon 2010 in the Raids and Dungeons panel, we're already discussing the possibility of incorporating loot tables and boss abilities into zone maps. While "enhanced maps" are still in their formative stages, we love the idea of a player being able to access a variety of information about a specific boss -- including what it drops, what abilities it has, and maybe even some lore about who it is and why everyone in Azeroth wants to kill it -- just by opening her map and mousing over an icon.

This is all still on the horizon, of course, and would likely be something that's implemented in stages. Nevertheless, we agree that the game could provide better tools for players who are adapting to new content and are currently working to bridge that gap for the future (in a meaningful way that doesn't undermine or spoil the experience).
this sounds great i especially like the lore idea since i never know why i am killing any of these bosses or why they are even "bosses"
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15085
As a tank I get alot of flack from the "elitists" in dungeons too, because no matter what, no matter how many times I've done a boss, I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS go over at least a bullet-point check before every boss. "Alright, 2 phase fight, phase one get off the blue stuff you're standing in, it's gonna kill you, interrupt her casting whatever...et. al". I don't care if YOU'VE done the fight a thousand times and never wiped, chances are the hunter's only been here on normal, the healer doesn't quite remember how this worked last time, and the rogue's only been here once and wiped. It takes a minute tops to explain how a fight works, and maybe another minute to explain if there are any questions...what's so hard about that?
69 Troll Druid
0
Simple go PvP cuz it seems like PvE is not for you.
36 Tauren Warrior
210
And that's why WoW has gone downhill and is losing players just as fast as it's gaining players.
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