How can people learn?

86 Worgen Mage
9620
Not everyone learns the same way, watching a video for me really does nothing, it in no way shape or form prepares me for what it is like to watch health bars and the encounter, what a lot of people fail to realize is not everyone learns the same way, some of us learn by doing, and no video is going to give you that.

Added

Also lag plays a part in every encounter, no video can teach you that you need to do x, y amount of seconds before it happens to account for lag


You can still understand mechanics.
When op said "Any tricks or etc.." he was referring to boss mechanics he should be aware of.
Of course watching a video won't give you an understand for how YOUR group will deal with the encounter, and there's never a healer rotation.

You still will know when there are big drops in health pools from boss mechanics or times when there may be drops in health pools if people don't follow the fight mechanics perfectly.
86 Worgen Mage
9620
Okay look at it from a different perspective. I dont consider ppl who dont no fights noobs, but moreso lazy. There are guides to the fights. im perfectly fine with explaining the fights. I dont mind taking 2 minutes. When i go into a heroic, i have at least looked up the fight, but im not going to remember every encounter. I simply ask" Can you refresh the boss fight, havent been here in a while" sounds much better then "i have absolutely no idea what i should be doing, what do i do?


Reasonable, yes.
But also I counter you with, how hard is it to have a wowpedia tab up and looking at a quick overview of fights before each boss.
You're trading other people's 'time' for you could have done yourself.
My point is, expecting other people to teach you isn't reasonable even in an mmo.
I didn't sign up for this game to teach people.
One's responsibility is in themselves. Saying it's an mmo doesn't make up for the fact that just because it has a lot of people in it doesn't mean I'm 'supposed' to tell people how to do the fight.
I may because I'm altruistic, but that doesn't mean there's any shoulds in it.
85 Human Priest
2455
01/06/2011 9:40 PMPosted by Sigyl
i've encountered more people who are unwilling to learn, then people who will learn


I agree that there are some people out there who are unwilling to learn, but more often the "teaching" is sub-par by a long shot.

Examples:
Yesterday I did HoO for the first time and told everyone I was new to the instance, if anyone could explain the boss fights to me, I would much appreciate it.
I got the following responses:
"You should be holy" - That's not teaching, but patronizing
"Don't stand in the bad stuff for this boss" - Sorry, but that's not teaching.

These are the type of responses I see most of the time when I'm in a group and someone asks for some advice.

Now, we could play "what came first, the chicken or the egg?" on this topic, but the fact that there is a problem on both sides remains. I just wish there was a simple solution to the issue.

One potential approach would be allowing "spectators" into a dungeon. Let a player join as a "spectator", perhaps even invisible to the group running the instance, so that they can get the experience, but not be able to interact with the players or the mobs. I could imagine Blizz being able to integrate such a feature without too much hassle. They could just add an option in the LFD tool for queuing as a "spectator". I reckon the experience gained in this way would be better than anything you could get from watching a video or reading up on.
71 Human Warrior
0
I'd just like to add that anyone interested in healing or tanking absolutely cannot even remotely learn the skills in game without a player to coach them. We aren't talking specific encounters here. We are talking about basic, fundamental roles that, if it wasn't for resources out of game (and even then, these resources cannot teach experience, triage, etc.) would be largely ignored.

Sure, healing and tanking are fun, when you know how they work at the most basic level. Nothing in game prepares you for these roles other than trial and error. The community did not earn the reputation of being the worst in MMOs for no reason, and that goes double for LFD.

Also, finding a guild, a good one, is much, MUCH harder than it really needs to be right now. You'd think Blizzard would have rolled a LFGuild interface, with the increased importance on guilds in Cataclysm. I remember they thought about it, but maybe it fell by the wayside.
Edited by Zoelle on 1/6/2011 9:59 PM PST
86 Worgen Mage
9620
01/06/2011 9:29 PMPosted by Fairadey
You don't represent the community and the community as a whole has not spoken.


Don't need every single person to speak for the community.
You're looking for loopholes in this argument, where it's just the fact that the majority of players as several people in this thread have stated do expect there to be some sort of knowledge.
Majority would equal the community.
85 Human Priest
5755
My first cataclysm instance. Within the first 5 minutes a DPS accidentally pulled some trash they shouldn't of. The DPS apoligised and we didn't wipe or anything (after all it was only normal blackrock caverns).

The tank however /sat and said he wasn't moving until his 9 minute timer was up and could kick the DPS. We said, "surely you aren't going to rest of us wait 9 minutes just to boot the DPS". He said something about not having time for noobs and repair bills or some such and that we would have to wait as well or leave.

The first LFD of the expansion was nearly my last. Thankfully, the instances I have done since haven't been nearly as bad.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6235
4
Edited by Superstone on 1/25/2014 7:21 PM PST
85 Draenei Shaman
1490
01/06/2011 9:20 PMPosted by Invíctus
Thanks. I look forward to it as well.
For new players it is a bit tricky if they don't realize there's pockets of information out there ready to be read.
Yet hopefully someone can direct them in game (which would most likely happen if they asked in trade chat) or they use the superpower common sense and google it.

I would think only young children would be unaware of fansites to wow.


Here is the major problem for both new and old players and non blizzard sites. The sheer amount of phishing going on and the scare factor that goes along with it. Some of these fansites are nothing more than phishing sites. Heck misspell a safer sites name and you might get bit.

It really doesn't take much to explain something to a new guy or point them in the right place.
86 Worgen Mage
9620
01/06/2011 10:01 PMPosted by Ginane
No I am not being stubborn I am just stating well known facts from rl not everyone learns from a video.

I would really hate to think of telling the people I train as paramedics to go read and look at the video, oh now that you have done that go on the next call.


It's silly to say that as what a video does is give you anything a player would tell you in the first place AND it would show you what's going on.

It's like if your paramedic had you telling him what to do as he was watching you do it, versus you just telling him what to do while you stare at the body you're about to save.

Either way they're still not going to be doing anything until they try it themselves. A video gives more than a player would give except a human to human interaction. But you wouldn't need that if you went to a reputable site with a video that was delivered in such a way it answered all the FAQs and more.
85 Orc Warlock
5930
I don't have the time for occuptional training. Go learn the skills you need outside of that (aka make friends and have them teach you) before you attempt to join the workforce.
85 Draenei Paladin
5035
01/06/2011 9:57 PMPosted by Invíctus
My point is, expecting other people to teach you isn't reasonable even in an mmo.
I didn't sign up for this game to teach people.


Sometimes you do things that you don't particularly enjoy just to be neighborly.

Gaming communities used to be so cooperative that they would drive you mad. We gave new players gear and money. We took an hour out of our day to show them how they could get into the sewers for some good old-fashioned giant rat thumping.

There's no requirement to be helpful. But is this game any better because people aren't?
86 Worgen Mage
9620
Sometimes you do things that you don't particularly enjoy just to be neighborly.

Gaming communities used to be so cooperative that they would drive you mad. We gave new players gear and money. We took an hour out of our day to show them how they could get into the sewers for some good old-fashioned giant rat thumping.

There's no requirement to be helpful. But is this game any better because people aren't?


You didn't replied to a part of what I said but not the full length, "One's responsibility is in themselves. Saying it's an mmo doesn't make up for the fact that just because it has a lot of people in it doesn't mean I'm 'supposed' to tell people how to do the fight.
I may because I'm altruistic, but that doesn't mean there's any shoulds in it."

I agree with you, but my point is that others are saying it's an mmo you should help people. But no, just because it's an mmo doesn't mean we help people. It's because we're human with higher moral standards than others is why we help people.
85 Tauren Druid
2515
01/06/2011 10:01 PMPosted by Ginane


I would really hate to think of telling the people I train as paramedics to go read and look at the video, oh now that you have done that go on the next call.


I'm sorry, but this is a silly argument right here.

Paramedics take classes. In those classes, you read. You watch videos. And THEN you disuss / practice what you learned.

People may not learn their best from watching a video. But find a good video, with verbal instructions AND a graphical illustration of the fight, and you'll already be two steps ahead of people who walk in and expect someone to tell you what to do.

Take your own initiative, and you'll find things far easier than having someone else lead you along.

85 Draenei Paladin
5035
01/06/2011 10:06 PMPosted by Invíctus
I agree with you, but my point is that others are saying it's an mmo you should help people. But no, just because it's an mmo doesn't mean we help people. It's because we're human with higher moral standards than others is why we help people.


Well, higher moral standards is a bit pompous. I just do it to be decent.
85 Human Paladin
2765
01/06/2011 10:03 PMPosted by Superstone
Some people are willing to help and some aren't. You can't make the jerks stop being jerks. They're jerks and they're not going to lose sleep over someone calling them on it.


Jerks or not, there's not even an option to socially ostracize them. At least in the past we could /ignore them, and eventually they'd gain a bad rep. This was the thing that scared the hell out of me in the past - I didn't want bad rep. I wanted people to think of me as a fun, friendly player so I could be invited to the most runs.

It's easy to ignore the jerks when you're already an, what did you call us? Oh, that's right, "old hands". We've been around. But what about the new players? They haven't lost the "magic" of seeing their first dungeon. I remember running Deadmines for the first time. Hell, I remember running it five dozen times afterwards and loving it. Why should they not benefit from the same great experience I had, just because some jerks want to get their "roflalt" up to a level in as little time as possible?
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