Tol barad and the 100 vs 30 fight!

(Locked)

85 Worgen Hunter
0
One nice side effect of the blue post. Along with the continued balance issues. Now general chat is nice and lively with strife about the status of the exploit.

Nice.


85 Blood Elf Priest
3375
it is a exploit, if you leave raid while TB is going on you do not get ported out and it lets an additional person in.


It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependant on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players. We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal, even in cases where we found people actively attempting to use this to outnumber the opposing team. They weren't.

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.


All talk but no action thats been happening a lot lately. All blizz ever does is nerf stuff that does not need to be nerfed. This game is becoming nothing but a major nerf fest.
Edited by Valianie on 1/30/2011 12:37 PM PST
90 Night Elf Mage
8085
01/28/2011 8:44 PMPosted by Adamsavage
For those who haven't read the whole thread -- doing /who Tol Barad does not work since it also counts people on the Peninsula who are not in the battle.

People have tested this in vent, one on Horde one on Alliance. The numbers stayed right about equal the entire battle despite the Alliance side trying to use the exploit and the Horde side not doing so.


It counts for BOTH. Tol Barad THEN the Peninsula. I'm pretty the game knows the difference between both zone. Next time there is a battle I will see if there a several players from Tol bard shows up in the Peninsula. However I'm pretty sure it can tell the difference.


Actually it's worse than that. I was testing a /who the other day and showed 21 alliance in all of Tol Barad, plus 16 alliance in Tol Barad Peninsula (by putting the filter to Zone, obviously). However we had a full 40 person raid in my raid frames. Slag, ICG, and WV each count as their own ZONE for purposes of /who (which, if you use XPerl, you can verify by mouseovering in raid frames and seeing where the player is listed).
01/27/2011 12:37 PMPosted by Pinkis
Tol barad and the 100 vs 30 fight!


Leonidas and the 300 spartans overcame impossible odds.

EDIT: And they did it in real life.


Ummm, yeah. Might want to work on your ability to separate movies from history. The greeks died to a man (even the guy that ran to Marathon died afterwards) at Thermopylae. So they did not "overcome" anything. What they did do was delay an army of 5 digits with a force of 3 digits long enough for Greece to muster forces.

The Greeks were surely brave, but in all honesty the mountain pass and the wall get the MVP awards ;).
Edited by Lyria on 1/30/2011 1:28 PM PST



It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependant on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players.


Um... Bashiok... I hate to bring this up but... you're missing a kinda obvious point here. At some point... one side will have more people queued up.. and the other WON'T. See, the nice queue system you guys built looks at who is queued, then it constructs the raid based on which side has fewer people queued. So, if the Horde has 30 and the Alliance has 40, then each side will get 30. If someone on Alliance exploits out and a new person comes in, the Alliance has 31, to the Horde's 30... until someone horde side queues up. That's WHY you have a queue system.

What it SOUNDS like you are saying is ... "Meh, it's no big deal that people are exploiting because... um.... it all works out..." except people are observing it - FIRST HAND - that it ISN'T working out. Tol Barad raids are thrown out of balance all OVER the place and you guys just keep punting. If it really is no big deal, why have a queue system at all? Just open the gates up and have us a good old-fashioned Battle Royale - winner take all!

Because, that's not what you want to happen. You want nice - even - structured teams to justify the horrible imbalance between attacking and defending you ALSO claim is intentional. Gotta say, I'm starting to have trouble believing that you guys actually do know about the problems or have any idea how to actually fix them, because more and more of your posts ring of rationalizations and justifications of things a large number of people are complaining about. And that's not inspiring confidence - that just churns the anger.


You are incorrect. It does not work the way you described at all. Take it from someone that plats TB on a server with a 3.5/1 faction imbalance, who plays both sides, every day. It's dead even. Every day.

The rumor comes from people not understanding the results of their /who command, and from the zerging strategy. You are not outnumbered, you just feel like you are.
Edited by Lyria on 1/30/2011 1:27 PM PST



They ALSO had some very favorable terrain that only allowed for minimal exposure at any given time...

the problem with lol barad is simple... D "group up and run circles... anything that gets taken zerg it... and move on"

O "we have to hold all three so split into three groups and go... also go asap and drop those towers or we'll run out of time..."

Meanwhile....

D "Zerg lol... zZzZzZzZerg!! /faceroll = win"

Edit - upon further reflection it appears to be a giant game of whack a mole from the defensive perspective... Even if O matches strategies (zerging)...


Bad strategy is bad. Attack and hold one position. Keep it. Watch the timer. Watch the defender's defensive pattern. Split into two groups and attack the second most defended position. this is the hard part, you need to hold it. Get two 5 man strike groups to act as raiders on the defender's supply column (typically all defenders rezzing at one point are told to move and attack/reinforce the next target). This column is mostly stragglers, very few defenders will group up before moving meaning you are picking off one or two at a time. Keep picking them off before they can reinforce. When the timer is almost up, hit the least defended target hard.

GG.


Too bad the GY is in the air and the slowfall mechanic means your 2 groups of 5 can never actually stop the flow of people from the center once they are onto your strategy. Your theory is nice, but needs more work. Maybe you thought it was set up that way for kicks?
Edited by Lyria on 1/30/2011 1:39 PM PST
85 Troll Druid
9970
I'm in favor of bringing back tenacity. I understand the frustration that it could cause, but at least they had ways to make it switch hands at least once a day. I see horde with TB about 2 times a day, we outnumber alliance 15.6:1 with 85s on Mal'ganis.

In other words, MANY of us horde are not able to get in there and get the hks/honor that we used to be able to get with WG.
Edited by Heliotroph on 1/30/2011 5:03 PM PST
100 Worgen Hunter
11410
I don't know why they cant just port you out when you drop raid like any other battleground.
100 Worgen Hunter
11410
OK here is a good question. What happens when for example 10 Alliance raid drop and only 2 Horde raid drop ? Does the game bring in 10 more Alliance players and 2 horde or does it know how many people are in the zone despite the number in the raid groups ? If the game knows how many people are in the battle for both sides then there should not be any unbalance of the number of players in the battle.
85 Tauren Death Knight
4480
hate to correct you Mr GM but you must have skipped queldorei, its all the ally do is the exploit. yes, i have evidence to prove you, a gm, wrong. if you want the screencaps and video of it i can send it to you, but im not going to let even a gm tell me im lying and then i see it for myself in tb
85 Night Elf Mage
9465
I know you say you are keeping a close eye on this, however, this work around does actually work when the entire raid is dumped on one side but not the other & then the balancing mechanism does allow for more players on one side to enter the battle. in order to keep it level, both sides must dump the entire raid. If the counting mechanism worked one side would never outnumber the other & as with Wintergrasp on my server, this work around is still in use & working as planned. I constantly invite GM's to create premade hunters on both sides & play on my server for a couple weeks....funny thing though, every time I post this invite the work around is not being used. I am not saying anyone is being tipped off, just that since I am posting in forums they stop using it for a bit just in case.
85 Troll Rogue
3185
You know if Raid group one fills a Raid group 2 is started?
85 Human Paladin
8775
I guess I am lucky but my server turns over TB almost every fight. It is very difficult to defend ever since Ally figured out a strong strategy that Horde hasn't adapted to.
85 Night Elf Mage
9465
Let me explain this "work around" or "exploit" or what ever you want to call it, in more detail. Let me also start out by saying my server is fairly even numbered horde/alliance. Lets say like Wintergrasp, 100 players on each side are allowed into battle (2 & 1/2 raid groups). Lets say 400 players have queued for battle from both sides. Lets say 200 are still waiting in queue. Lets say the leader of one of those full raid groups kicks every player from his raid leaving what appears to the balancing mechanism a deficit of numbers on one side & allows the players waiting in queue to join the raid. Lets say the other raid leader does the same or the same raid leader does it again. Now you have 78 players in the zone not in the battle raid & the mechanism is only seeing a deficit in the battle raid numbers allowing yet more queued players to join the fight to "even out" the supposed deficit. Eventually you are going to have a 2-1/3-1/4-1 ratio unless the other side does exactly the same thing. This could go on until there was no one left in queue. Because the balancing mechanism only sees what it is set up to track, it won't track anything outside that, therefore allowing an imbalance. This was how one side severely outnumbered the other on my server in Wintergrasp near the end of Wrath about 3 months prior to Cata. This is the same method being used in Tol Barad. My solution is to increase the raid frames to include all 100 players in one raid & anyone not in that raid will be zoned out during the battle. This will eliminate any possible work around or exploit & keep the battle even. By the way, they communicate via general chat not raid to relay strategies to all the players on the one side.
100 Human Paladin
13490
It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependant on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players. We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal, even in cases where we found people actively attempting to use this to outnumber the opposing team. They weren't.

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.

BLUE POST
85 Draenei Paladin
2885
01/27/2011 12:16 PMPosted by Bashiok
it is a exploit, if you leave raid while TB is going on you do not get ported out and it lets an additional person in.


It doesn't actually work. The balance of factions is not dependant on if you’re in a raid or not. It's a mis-perception based on the inability to see the opposing team's numbers. What’s happening is that you can leave a raid, remain in Tol Barad, and because your old raid may pick up an additional player from the queue there’s an assumption that your side is getting more players. In fact the other side is keeping up and also getting additional players. We’ve verified across a number of realms that faction balance remains equal, even in cases where we found people actively attempting to use this to outnumber the opposing team. They weren't.

We keep a close eye on Tol Barad faction balance and turnover.


You guys remind me of Ned Flanders' parents. "We've tried nothin and we're all outta ideas!"

Instead of just watching, try doing. The exploit couldn't possibly be working because you observed and the number remained "balanced". Ever think that both sides may be attempting to use the drop raid method, thus leading to a steady yet "balanced" increase in active particitpants on both sides?

Prove to us you actually care about PvP by fixing the issues that have been around for YEARS! Stop trying to tweak the class mechanics so that you F up PvE, and make the BGs WORK, that would be a novel concept.

Fix the guns on IoC. Fix the boss level in the 80 - 84 bracket. Reset the demos in IoC and SotA to their original speed and remove the snare affects from them. Fix the fear pathing in Lol Barad. The list is HUGE!!!

Spend a little time and read the multiple threads concerning Lol Barad and implement some of the player submitted ideas, because they're actually better concepts than the current set-up.

In short, if you guys can't find the ability to give PvP the attention it deserves hire somebody that can handle it for you.
This topic is locked.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]