Vengeance Cap is NOT 10% of Maximum Health

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85 Tauren Druid
5435
Full details here: http://theincbear.com/vengeance-cap-theorycraft/

It has been bugging some of us for the past couple of weeks that we are seeing our vengeance being capped at ~7.7-8.0% of Maximum Health rather than the expected 10%. After investigating this issue for the past couple of days with Reesi I've found the reason why this is happening. While Health is now (since 4.0.1) being calculated as 14x Stamina + Base Health, Vengeance seem to be using the old pre-Cataclysm stamina multiplier of 10x instead of 14x.

Hope this help the tank theorycrafters out there (or maybe not since Bears are the only tanks with DTPS scaling with Vengeance). My own spreadsheet at http://theincbear.com/vengeance-cap-theorycraft/ has been updated.



90 Human Warrior
13005
Have you posted this on the bug report forum?
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 7:59 AMPosted by Muspel
Have you posted this on the bug report forum?

Shhhh. He's giving me pageviews.

Hasn't yet. Probably will, and should.

I want my max vengeance, damnit.
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
10020
Shhhh. He's giving me pageviews.

Hasn't yet. Probably will, and should.

I want my max vengeance, damnit.

How'd you test this Reesi / Tange? Or did you post that info somewhere? I didn't see it when I checked your site. Just curious as to how you went about testing it.
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 8:09 AMPosted by Dosvidaniya
Shhhh. He's giving me pageviews.

Hasn't yet. Probably will, and should.

I want my max vengeance, damnit.

How'd you test this Reesi / Tange? Or did you post that info somewhere? I didn't see it when I checked your site. Just curious as to how you went about testing it.

Live testing from my heroic raids. I first noticed the oddity when reviewing fraps of Heroic Halfus(that vengeance was stopping at the same exact point during high peaks of damage), but didn't have enough to go off of.

I thought it might have been my mod that was broken, so Tangent suggested I look at the buff next time. So, working on H. Conclave, I recorded my unbuffed HP in caster/bear + stam, then my buffed HP in caster/bear + stam, How much vengeance I should have had, then how much Vengeance I noticed myself "capping" out at.

Considering vengeance isn't constant in how much AP it gives you, it was pretty easy to spot when it would cap if you knew what number to look for, because it would *never* go past it, even if you knew you should be gaining more based on the damage intake.

Quickly took a screenshot of the night I got the numbers from:

http://theincbear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/WoWScrnShot_010611_015304.jpg
75 Night Elf Rogue
980


How'd you test this Reesi / Tange? Or did you post that info somewhere? I didn't see it when I checked your site. Just curious as to how you went about testing it.

Live testing from my heroic raids. I first noticed the oddity when reviewing fraps of Heroic Halfus(that vengeance was stopping at the same exact point during high peaks of damage), but didn't have enough to go off of.

I thought it might have been my mod that was broken, so Tangent suggested I look at the buff next time. So, working on H. Conclave, I recorded my unbuffed HP in caster/bear + stam, then my buffed HP in caster/bear + stam, How much vengeance I should have had, then how much Vengeance I noticed myself "capping" out at.

Considering vengeance isn't constant in how much AP it gives you, it was pretty easy to spot when it would cap if you knew what number to look for, because it would *never* go past it, even if you knew you should be gaining more based on the damage intake.

Quickly took a screenshot of the night I got the numbers from:

http://theincbear.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/WoWScrnShot_010611_015304.jpg

ITS OVER 9000!!!! Sorry, had to.

This would explain why no one ever caps out in Vengeance.... and why I've never been past 80% or so. This should definitely get looked into by a nublue, yes nublue. So.... hurry up and post it in the bug forms..

Also, make sure you don't post it on a warrior toon lol.
Edited by Xbyer on 1/9/2011 8:27 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6235
01/09/2011 7:14 AMPosted by Tangedyn
While Health is now (since 4.0.1) being calculated as 14x Stamina + Base Health, Vengeance seem to be using the old pre-Cataclysm stamina multiplier of 10x instead of 14x.

Slight correction: Unless I'm mistaken, health-per-STA only goes up to 14 HP/STA in the Cataclysm levels.

I suppose this would explain why we could get 100% Vengeance in ICC and various WOTLK contexts, but not Cataclysm.
86 Dwarf Paladin
12935
I imagine they'll leave this 'bugged' for the first tier of raiding at least. They may fix it in later tiers depending on how threat sensitive things become. Right now though, we really don't need any extra vengeance.
85 Troll Druid
5410
Well they're basically hurting druid tanks for 20% of their total possible vengeance accumulated AP which in turn means we're directly going to take more damage than we should be, also that we're doing less damage than we should be(which is hilariously insane).

In Tan's example on the bear blog(theincbear.com):
And that explains why we are capping vengeance lower than what we have expected. This equation is accurate for the few numbers that Reesi has given me: 182899 Health Fully raid buffed with 10259 Stamina was giving her 14212 Vengeance instead of the expected 18289, but with the new equation, 10259 + 3953 = 14212, it fits perfectly. 168367 Health with 9221 Stamina was giving her 9221 + 3953 = 13174 vengeance instead of the expected 16836.


That's ~4,000 AP which could contribute to shields, which is really sad.
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 11:29 AMPosted by Warstehdruid
That's ~4,000 AP which could contribute to shields, which is really sad.

Don't worry, we're getting much more total AP than we should be with Vengeance.

I can't figure that one out unless I'm missing a major buff somewhere in my calcs.
85 Troll Druid
5410
Wow, that's just weird, here I was thinking we were getting ripped off.
85 Tauren Druid
5435
Ok bug report posted at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1827256911
...with one pretty stupid reply /shrug

Working on that AP thing
75 Night Elf Rogue
980
01/09/2011 11:54 AMPosted by Tangedyn
Ok bug report posted at http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1827256911
...with one pretty stupid reply /shrug

Working on that AP thing

Must... resist... urge... post... in thread..... huntard..... idiot...
85 Troll Druid
5410
I was basically as polite as possible, though I guess I usually try to be! :D

First I'm hearing about the AP thing, I'll reread all your stuff and see if I can figure it out.
85 Night Elf Druid
12205
I posted!
01/09/2011 11:29 AMPosted by Warstehdruid
That's ~4,000 AP which could contribute to shields, which is really sad.


Some hit rating or expertise would help just as much probably.
85 Troll Druid
5410
01/09/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Fleacollar
That's ~4,000 AP which could contribute to shields, which is really sad.


Some hit rating or expertise would help just as much probably.


/facepalm
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Fleacollar
That's ~4,000 AP which could contribute to shields, which is really sad.


Some hit rating or expertise would help just as much probably.

Nooooooooot really.
85 Troll Druid
5410
I think we've got all the evidence we need for this particular argument, however thanks for the link!
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