Vengeance Cap is NOT 10% of Maximum Health

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90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 1:00 PMPosted by Vedranna
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/vengeance-status.aspx

is a nice little addon that shows you a bar with a total ap bonus for vengeance, use that and get some screen shots next time. It's a little better then the mouse over vengeance buff.

Look below my health bar. Vengeance Status is there. I was using that mod when I first noticed the oddity.

But thanks for trying to disprove us with that.
01/09/2011 12:30 PMPosted by Warstehdruid


Some hit rating or expertise would help just as much probably.


/facepalm


I'm new to druid, so help a noob out.
Shield is proced from crits, so actually critting a mob instead of missing it (like in the screenshot) would lead to the shield up time being higher? Or are enough crits landing that uptime is constant?
85 Troll Druid
5410
Our crit is high enough with pulverize and agility stacking that it's basically near the crit soft-cap to begin with.

Moreover since we reforge everything to dodge, that increases our SD uptime through the fact that it takes the boss longer to remove our SDs.

We aren't meant to have constant uptime with SD at this point and trying to do so through the stacking of offensive stats is basically impossible.

4,000 extra vengeance AP tacked onto your overall ap(I think mine has been capping out around 31k or something, would give a good boost to shield numbers.

However, as Ri said we're apparently getting too much AP as it is from another issue which I'm not versed in at all and can't wait to hear the results of this latest investigation. So that may render my entire conclusion moot if they fix both bugs and we're at a ~0 net gain.

Also, I do recommend before posting in threads like this that most people try to read up on previous mechanics in order to continue the discussion as linearly as possible.

Though I mean, it's the forums, what can we expect? :D
90 Orc Warrior
10130
Wait, so what's this? Vengeance is capped lower than expected, but Druids are gaining more AP than expected?

What what what?
75 Gnome Rogue
1240
Didn't Zarko in his original 'After First Tier Raiding Thread' do all the calc's based on about 75-80% Vengeance anyway. I believe this had to do with the calculation of Ven gain Vrs Ven Decay which (somehow?) showed that on hardhitting 'patchwork' style normalised 'debuffed slowed' swinging boss that the Avg. Ven you could possibly hope to gain was around this 75-80% you people are reporting ?

i.e isn't 100% Vengeance therefore 100% of 10% Max HP ni impossible to reach or rather 'maintain' for more than a second or two anyway ?

(edited to say Avg vrs Max to save confusion)
Edited by Ñierrti on 1/9/2011 3:15 PM PST
85 Goblin Shaman
11105
Not really Nierrti, it's directly related to the damage you're taking, so in many cases, like the ones Fasc put earlier, we should spike to 100% vengeance cap and we never do. It will however as you said, not be maintainable. In heroic fights, we should be seeing some heavy vengeance numbers above 79% though.

I honestly have no idea Zarko but I'm sure we'll be hearing something soon, I'm gonna let Ri/Ar/Tan/Fasc work on this latest problem and not bug em til they're done.


Though I do want to know what it is!!!!!
Edited by Warsen on 1/9/2011 2:51 PM PST
75 Gnome Rogue
1240
01/09/2011 2:50 PMPosted by Warsen
Not really Nierrti, it's directly related to the damage you're taking, so in many cases, like the ones Fasc put earlier, we should spike to 100% vengeance cap and we never do. It will however as you said, not be maintainable. In heroic fights, we should be seeing some heavy vengeance numbers above 79% though.

I honestly have no idea Zarko but I'm sure we'll be hearing something soon, I'm gonna let Ri/Ar/Tan/Fasc work on this latest problem and not bug em til they're done.


Though I do want to know what it is!!!!!



Edited my post to say Avg Ven ...instead of Max Vengeance
i.e the 75-80% as I said is 'normalised' ....Max 100% Ven for just a second or two , normally hovering around 75-80% which is as people are reporting is exactly what they are seeing. So why report something as a bug when this is what has been perceived to happen for quite some time now ?

Is it just because people are not seeing 100% Ven (ever) , or because people are not seeing Ven stay at 100% for more than a second (which is probably too fast for the addons to show anyway) ...remember even a spate of unavoided attacks land Ven is still decaying. You can never have gain/gain/gain the decay is constantly ticking
75 Gnome Rogue
1240
01/09/2011 2:50 PMPosted by Warsen
Not really Nierrti, it's directly related to the damage you're taking, so in many cases, like the ones Fasc put earlier, we should spike to 100% vengeance cap and we never do. It will however as you said, not be maintainable. In heroic fights, we should be seeing some heavy vengeance numbers above 79% though.

I honestly have no idea Zarko but I'm sure we'll be hearing something soon, I'm gonna let Ri/Ar/Tan/Fasc work on this latest problem and not bug em til they're done.


Though I do want to know what it is!!!!!


Or you spike to 100% cap but is of such brief time that you don't see it or it is too fast for the addon to catch it.

Which lines up with the calcs of previous showing 75-80% uptime
100% would mean a spate of undodged/unparried attacks landing with zero decay on vengeance. Vengeance is always decaying so to have 100% for anything more than a second or two is ...well mathematically improbable, with the vast majority of Ven Avg. out in that 75-80% range.

What interests me more is the report that even though AP is still scaling up the Ven reported figure caps & locks with AP still going up. That to a layman really sounds more like a bug in the addon
85 Troll Druid
5410
Nahhh, we should be seeing the spikes for at least a second, the decay is something like one tick every second or so. So with if we didn't see it with our eyes, our mods would catch it.

90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 3:13 PMPosted by Ñierrti
That to a layman really sounds more like a bug in the addon

Buff tooltip was displaying the same as the mod tooltip.

I'm assuming vengeance gains from 10% AP, and in the case of druids, 25% from aggression.

The AP thing is something different. I'm fairly certain I missed a buff somewhere when I took that into consideration.

Though, it could also be a bug with the tooltip and it's gaining past what it's showing. I know Vengeance Status pulls directly from the buff.

Basically need more data regarding that, that I hope to grab tonight or tomorrow.
Edited by Reesi on 1/9/2011 3:36 PM PST
90 Orc Warrior
10130
01/09/2011 3:27 PMPosted by Reesi
I'm assuming vengeance gains from 10% AP, and in the case of druids, 25% from aggression.


Wut. I was assuming there was no way that would be the case. If so--HI-Larious.
85 Goblin Priest
3965
So that's why i do 25,000dps on halfus while tanking without abusing berserk as much as I should be?

Next week I'm going for 30k.
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 3:47 PMPosted by Zarko
I'm assuming vengeance gains from 10% AP, and in the case of druids, 25% from aggression.


Wut. I was assuming there was no way that would be the case. If so--HI-Larious.

It's something I need to look into.

There were/are buffs that I can't recall if I had or not at the time of recording my AP.
90 Orc Warrior
10130
01/09/2011 6:40 PMPosted by Reesi
There were/are buffs that I can't recall if I had or not at the time of recording my AP.


Uh, were you not sure whether you were in bear form or not?

/lol?
90 Worgen Druid
12790
There were/are buffs that I can't recall if I had or not at the time of recording my AP.


Uh, were you not sure whether you were in bear form or not?

/lol?

No, it was mostly the case of Strength of Earth / 10% AP.

I don't think I had SoE on the north platform for some time.
Edited by Reesi on 1/9/2011 7:20 PM PST
85 Tauren Druid
5435
Ok, Reesi and myself have accounted for the differences in the expected and actual values in Attack Power from Vengeance, thanks to some help from Dellingr. It's err... kind of a "Fight Club" thingy, so we probably shouldn't talk about the details.

(My spreadsheet has been updated so you can look at that, but please remember the rules of the Fight Club!)
85 Night Elf Druid
12205
01/09/2011 11:36 PMPosted by Tangedyn
Ok, Reesi and myself have accounted for the differences in the expected and actual values in Attack Power from Vengeance, thanks to some help from Dellingr. It's err... kind of a "Fight Club" thingy, so we probably shouldn't talk about the details.

(My spreadsheet has been updated so you can look at that, but please remember the rules of the Fight Club!)


English + Actual Formulas or I kill you.

In the nicest way possible of course! :D
90 Worgen Druid
12790
01/09/2011 11:38 PMPosted by Fasc
English + Actual Formulas or I kill you.

In the nicest way possible of course! :D

I'm too scurred to say. We think it might be intentional, but ffs I don't want it to be a bug because if it is, it hurts us more.

:x
85 Night Elf Druid
7180
01/09/2011 1:00 PMPosted by Vedranna
http://wow.curse.com/downloads/wow-addons/details/vengeance-status.aspx

is a nice little addon that shows you a bar with a total ap bonus for vengeance, use that and get some screen shots next time. It's a little better then the mouse over vengeance buff.


The first thing a blue poster asks you to do when reporting a bug is to disable all addons that could have anything to do with causeing the bug or presenting it.

Ideally the Bug Report Forums would prefer you to have -zero- addons installed, otherwise any glitch could merely be misrepresented or caused by your modded UI.
Edited by Feranel on 1/10/2011 6:20 AM PST
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
01/10/2011 6:14 AMPosted by Reesi
English + Actual Formulas or I kill you.

In the nicest way possible of course! :D

I'm too scurred to say. We think it might be intentional, but ffs I don't want it to be a bug because if it is, it hurts us more.

:x


Tell us ffs.
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