Guild Rep is 100% Stupid.

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Community Manager
I talked with the designers late last night and early this morning on the rep system. There are some improvements being discussed but any changes made would at the earliest, be seen in the first major content patch, if not after. For that reason they aren't changes we're willing to yet discuss as they haven't been implemented, but there is some agreement that additional ways to earn rep, as well as help for PvP'ers and PvP guilds is in order.

Future improvements aside, one basic point we kept coming back to while discussing it was the nature of the system, and the intent and vision for how it should be a part of someone's play time when they log in. First and foremost it is not a system we want to encourage people to grind out by making certain activities either give rep, or give more of it. We realize that this is contrary to what is possible for most NPC rep factions, but this isn't an NPC rep, and it's deliberately different. Secondly, and most importantly, we are ok with this continuing to be a very slow moving rep that you can't quickly progress. These are bonuses, and not requirements to ensure a fun or properly progressing gameplay experience. The gain of guild rep is something that is intended to happen slowly over time, and not something you can focus your efforts on to push toward the cap as quick as possible. Obviously there are ways to make it quicker, and actions you can take to try to build it up, but as many of you are aware they still aren't always extremely lucrative. This is intentional.

To reiterate my first paragraph, we do have some improvements planned in the way of adding or improving the way rep is gained in certain situations. We do not however feel the system is performing beneath or beyond the intent and design, and are mostly happy with the rate in which it's being gained. Slowly but surely.
Edited by Bashiok on 1/21/2011 11:13 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Rogue
3365
Well, I'm cool with the idea of not intending Guild rep to be grinded for.... but right now it all feels arbitrary.


Like I play a lot but I'm still 2k towards revered with my guild when I've been playing since Cata was released, yet other members in my guild are some rep into revered towards exalted already.


And I have no idea why or how I could have even kept up with them.
90 Human Death Knight
7855
How about giving partial rep based on how much different your previous guild level was with your next? If I am revered with a lvl 20 guild and I join a lvl 19 guild, I should maintain revered. There's no exploit there.

If I am in a lvl 10 guild and I join a lvl 20 guild, perhaps I maintain half my rep?
Edited by Nikolos on 1/21/2011 11:15 AM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
5780
Ok, it seems to be moving along well enough
90 Draenei Paladin
12760
Maybe the problem with guild rep is that it is call "guild reputation".

rep·u·ta·tion Pronunciation (rpy-tshn)
n.
1. The general estimation in which a person is held by the public.
2. The state or situation of being held in high esteem.
3. A specific characteristic or trait ascribed to a person or thing: a reputation for courtesy.

When the actual use in game is a gating system so that new players do not get access to rewards with no work.

High guild rep does not equal high esteem in the guild. A person with exalted guild rep can do pretty bad things and still have that high rep (not show up for raid/BG times, never help lowbies, never contribute to the GB)
85 Human Priest
8465
Why not just have it automatically give you the weekly amount if you clear all 12 raid bosses per week or do x amount of arenas / BGs.

Many people are beyond the point of questing / 5 manning but we still need to grind this content to stay up with the "slowly but surely" design.
Edited by Krisaga on 1/21/2011 11:18 AM PST
85 Gnome Warlock
12355
I think the guild system in its current implementation is a bit too grindy and illogical.

My suggestions:

- Give some sort of bonus to guild rep to characters on the same account. As somebody else suggested, maybe make the weekly cap equal to the amount of guild rep the character with the highest guild reputation on the account has. Maybe give a "tenacity" to guild rep gains to characters on accounts that have other characters with higher rep.

- Make the guild XP cap increase periodically in a couple months so new guilds can level at a reasonable rate instead of being required to do the 120+ day grind.

- Add in other ways to get guild rep besides questing/dungeons. Gathering herbs for flasks is an important task, one that will take priority over doing your daily quests. Likewise, learning new recipes or even just crafting things is important. Make gathering nodes give like 5 rep, skinning give like 3 rep, learning recipes give 1-10 based on the recipe, and crafting blue/epic give 5/10. Nobody will herb for hours when they could get the rep in dungeons 10x faster and much cheaper. Even if that is a concern, cap out the rep gains from those sources if you want.
85 Tauren Paladin
10835
01/21/2011 11:14 AMPosted by Desuka
Well, I'm cool with the idea of not intending Guild rep to be grinded for.... but right now it all feels arbitrary.


Like I play a lot but I'm still 2k towards revered with my guild when I've been playing since Cata was released, yet other members in my guild are some rep into revered towards exalted already.


And I have no idea why or how I could have even kept up with them.


the first few days there was a bug that didn cap Guild rep some people got a head start by grinding out a bunch of quests on release day
66 Tauren Druid
740
01/21/2011 11:11 AMPosted by Bashiok
First and foremost it is not a system we want to encourage people to grind out by making certain activities either give rep, or give more of it. We realize that this is contrary to what is possible for most NPC rep factions, but this isn't an NPC rep, and it's deliberately different. Secondly, and most importantly, we are ok with this continuing to be a very slow moving rep that you can't quickly progress. These are bonuses, and not requirements to ensure a fun or properly progressing gameplay experience. The gain of guild rep is something that is intended to happen slowly over time, and not something you can focus your efforts on to push toward the cap as quick as possible. Obviously there are ways to make it quicker, and actions you can take to try to build it up, but as many of you are aware they still aren't always extremely lucrative. This is intentional.


Thank you for this clarification Bashiok. I know many people are going to disagree and that Blizzard isn't at all required to make their decisions transparent. The fact that it is the company's policy to communicate directly with the playerbase (even when we try and present arguments with 20% of the facts) isn't often recognized or applauded.

Thank you for hearing us. Thank you for discussing it. And most of all, thank you for telling us that you've done so.
85 Tauren Paladin
10835
01/21/2011 11:16 AMPosted by Bergtau
I think the guild system in its current implementation is a bit too grindy and illogical.

My suggestions:

- Give some sort of bonus to guild rep to characters on the same account. As somebody else suggested, maybe make the weekly cap equal to the amount of guild rep the character with the highest guild reputation on the account has. Maybe give a "tenacity" to guild rep gains to characters on accounts that have other characters with higher rep.

- Make the guild XP cap increase periodically in a couple months so new guilds can level at a reasonable rate instead of being required to do the 120+ day grind.

- Add in other ways to get guild rep besides questing/dungeons. Gathering herbs for flasks is an important task, one that will take priority over doing your daily quests. Likewise, learning new recipes or even just crafting things is important. Make gathering nodes give like 5 rep, skinning give like 3 rep, learning recipes give 1-10 based on the recipe, and crafting blue/epic give 5/10. Nobody will herb for hours when they could get the rep in dungeons 10x faster and much cheaper. Even if that is a concern, cap out the rep gains from those sources if you want.



There really isn't much reason for it, Having guild rep doesn't really effect a guilds Raiding Performance, anything they get that can be used such as feasts are earned from achievments.
62 Troll Hunter
360
Can something please be done about alts? You have to realize a huge number of players feel "locked" into their mains, even through the expansion transition, because of all the mounts / pets / achievements / reps / professions they've grinded on one character, and adding guild rep (capped each week) only exacerbates the problem.
I've recently swapped mains (druid to rogue) and my attitude toward achievements / mounts / pets, which I had some fun getting back in LK (on my druid), has just become "so what, not gonna bother" on my rogue. I really hope that's not something you're satisfied with, just the whole newfound apathy toward a significant portion of the game because a new class appeals to a player more.
85 Gnome Warlock
12355
I think the guild system in its current implementation is a bit too grindy and illogical.

My suggestions:

- Give some sort of bonus to guild rep to characters on the same account. As somebody else suggested, maybe make the weekly cap equal to the amount of guild rep the character with the highest guild reputation on the account has. Maybe give a "tenacity" to guild rep gains to characters on accounts that have other characters with higher rep.

- Make the guild XP cap increase periodically in a couple months so new guilds can level at a reasonable rate instead of being required to do the 120+ day grind.

- Add in other ways to get guild rep besides questing/dungeons. Gathering herbs for flasks is an important task, one that will take priority over doing your daily quests. Likewise, learning new recipes or even just crafting things is important. Make gathering nodes give like 5 rep, skinning give like 3 rep, learning recipes give 1-10 based on the recipe, and crafting blue/epic give 5/10. Nobody will herb for hours when they could get the rep in dungeons 10x faster and much cheaper. Even if that is a concern, cap out the rep gains from those sources if you want.



There really isn't much reason for it, Having guild rep doesn't really effect a guilds Raiding Performance, anything they get that can be used such as feasts are earned from achievments.


That's not the point though, guild rep items weren't ever intended to be something used for raiding. My point is that the people who are doing things that contribute more to a guild than daily quests are getting shafted, and it needs to be fixed. Unless you mean the XP part, then I would also say you missed the point, as raiding isn't the only reason you are in a guild.
01/21/2011 11:21 AMPosted by Awful
The designers are also satisfied with tol barad, and the players are not.


Have you even read a third of the Blizzard posts about either subject?
Edited by Bergtau on 1/21/2011 11:25 AM PST
85 Tauren Paladin
10835
01/21/2011 11:19 AMPosted by Rivenoak
First and foremost it is not a system we want to encourage people to grind out by making certain activities either give rep, or give more of it. We realize that this is contrary to what is possible for most NPC rep factions, but this isn't an NPC rep, and it's deliberately different. Secondly, and most importantly, we are ok with this continuing to be a very slow moving rep that you can't quickly progress. These are bonuses, and not requirements to ensure a fun or properly progressing gameplay experience. The gain of guild rep is something that is intended to happen slowly over time, and not something you can focus your efforts on to push toward the cap as quick as possible. Obviously there are ways to make it quicker, and actions you can take to try to build it up, but as many of you are aware they still aren't always extremely lucrative. This is intentional.


If i can make 1 suggestion for an up comming patch is put some sort of timer on a member from leaving guild before rep is cleared. cause i know in some guilds you have an officer that like to kick people for saying something about how hot their mom is. just a @@%#@ to reach almost exalted and have some get kicked for 5 minutes and lose it all over a lame joke.
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
"Rep" should just be represented by time in guild.

If all you want to do is stop newcomers being invited, buying things and leaving, put a slow daily creep on their access.

Then you can finely tune how long someone needs to be in a guild before they can access reward X. Simple, easy, doesn't require the player to do anything more than be guilded.
80 Night Elf Druid
1605
You still can wear a ring that's enchanted without Enchanting. You simply don't get the benefit of the enchant. As an example, my level 39 bank has leggings with Nethercleft, a head enchanted with +12 Dodge, and is even wearing Arachnid Gloves of the Monkey (requires level 40). She doesn't benefit from the enchants or the gloves, but she can wear them.


Okay, I didn't know that either O_o I have a scope on an heirloom bow and last I knew, a level 1 alt of mine couldn't equip it. Is this not the same kind of deal (Not having the correct level for the enchant, like your bank alt doesn't have the correct level for the gloves)?

Back on topic though:
I would have thought that sending heirlooms to your alt would be the only acceptable non-rep-use. Being able to use the other "rewards" even the mounts after losing the rep seems kind of silly to me, but I can understand they must of implemented this in case someone got unfairly gkicked. But this type of situation and the answer for it in my opinion seems wrong.

>One one side we have the innocent guy who earned all his rep and got his goodies and was unfairly kicked resulting in loss of goodies.

>On another side we have the greedy rich guy who buys into a guild for rank based rep, buys his goodies and splits with them.

>And then we have the situation that could happen now; some loner guy getting into a guild to earn rep just to leave when he has the mount or whatever. Maybe its not a problem now, but in the future it might be. He could get a dark phoenix without ever setting foot in a raid.

I guess what I'm saying is that all of the situations could have an unwanted outcome, so why one over the other?
90 Blood Elf Priest
10610
My question for the OP is, did you not do quests to level to 85? That is how i got my guild rep to honored.
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