Guild Rep is 100% Stupid.

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85 Undead Rogue
0
01/17/2011 12:05 PMPosted by Bashiok
100%!? That's like... all percent.

Well, I think this is a valid complaint being that there's an initial buy-in period where you're kind of wondering why you have to level up reputation with a guild you've been in for a year, but that's sort of the nature of implementing new features like this.

You are correct in that we do not want people to join guilds, be able to immediately buy rewards that the guild unlocked, and jet. Your idea of unlocking rewards based on time spent in the guild instead of contribution isn't quite right either.

Guild rep exists to gate rewards based on someone's actual contributions to their guild, not just being some dope on the roster. Jumping in to guild dungeon and raid runs (with 80% members, [40% for 40 person raids] until 4.0.6 which drops 5 person dungeons to variable gains based on 3/5, 4/5, and 5/5), winning rated bg's, or earning guild achievements, all help earn guild rep. And yes, so do quests, should you find yourself doing them.

The point is not to force you to do things you do not want to do, but instead be rewarded for participating in activities with your guild. And it uses criteria that ideally keep it from getting too 'gamey'. We could probably say if you make a flask, give it to a guild mate, and they drink it, you get some guild rep. And then that type of action turns into a fun farming game that has nothing to do with actually encouraging guild interaction. The criteria we've set are hopefully those that are both beneficial to the guild and its members, as well as avoiding making grindy actions the best way to get rep.

As far as making it account wide, I'm not a designer, but that definitely hinders, again, the guild participation factor. Once you have guild rep set on one character, and if that then applied account wide, your desire to contribute to guild content that isn't pushing gearing your character drops substantially. However, if you have an alt that's 80, yeah you probably will want to join in on that Blackrock Caverns run being put together. Otherwise you're a jaded 85 guildie who has variable interest in actually helping someone else out (Yes, yes, I'm sure you're the most selfless and helpful person in your guild, but that scenario is too often the rule and not the exception). It could also be gamed to some degree... but I'm not sure to what effect.

As I said initially this can be a weird start conceptually, but while contributing with guild members you're gaining rep, and you'll get access to those rewards from then on. As this is still a fairly new and fairly big and complex system we're watching it very closely, and fully intend to keep adding to it and improving upon it. Your constructive feedback is welcome.


So if this is the case, and you want people that contribute to gain the rewards, why is there an arbitrary weekly cap on how much reputation you can earn?

This seems like it's nothing more than another rep. grind designed to take as long as possible while keeping players chained down.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
15175
I don't think there is a guild perk above revered and most are just honored

the armadillo pup requires exalted to get atm


If I recall correctly, this is being lowered to Revered.

Edit: and again, IIRC, the only guild rewards that currently require (and should require, IMO) exalted rep are the mounts.
Edited by Falynn on 1/17/2011 12:28 PM PST
85 Orc Death Knight
0
Why is it that doing arenas doesn't reward guild experience? I think that would do a lot to help the pvp guilds that aren't interested in pve.
90 Human Paladin
6565
Since you seem to be floating around in here Bashiok...
Why is guild rep capped?
I can grind out all the other reps I want...all day. So why not my guild rep? Which is actually quite important to me.
85 Tauren Shaman
2705
Guilds should reward their members for participation, not Blizzard. If someone isn't contributing, a good guild will deal with that member accordingly.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6385
What i want to know is why PvE things such as completing dungeons in a guild group give rep while PvP things such as completing arenas and bgs in guild groups do not O.o
Community Manager
01/17/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Redblueblurr
Bashiok... I think this logic is somewhat flawed to be honest. Most people would not stay in guild where the GM sits back and lets the rest of the guild do things for him. The reason my guild exists is because of our desire to see the guild run the way we all collectively thought was right... so we left the guild we were in and started this one.


I would argue that most would stay as long as the guild was otherwise functioning to their satisfaction. I'm glad your guild was built and formed around a group mantra and you're close, that's awesome, but you have to understand that is not the case for all guilds.

01/17/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Redblueblurr
As for your previous comment regarding flasks etc. I think I can see who contributes to the guild on a larger scale as well via the use of the Guild Bank. Isn't helping the guild aquire the mats and items that help us all do things a valid part of contributing to a guild?


Sure, but again, that can be gamed. Making guild rep a meta game of depositing mats, to remove them, launder them, and re-deposit to exalted is not the point of the system. And while it would be cool to recognize those things, there's simply too many loopholes.

01/17/2011 12:20 PMPosted by Redblueblurr
I have guild members who tirelessly make new epics for our members and give them those items for NOTHING. Crafter items that they had to get the Chaos orbs for while we were running Heroics. Yet I can not offer those players any increased Rep within the guild?


No, but, you can give back in other ways.

That does bring up an interesting idea of gifting someone rep who helped you out. An 85 jumps in to help you in a normal dungeon and you want to toss some rep his way for helping. Mmmm... I'm not sure how it could work and not just be a back scratcher, but it sounds cool.
Edited by Bashiok on 1/17/2011 12:29 PM PST
85 Orc Warrior
3045
The Guild Rep concept is awesome if you have a 100+ person PvE guild.

For smaller PvP guilds, BLizzard gaves a big middle finger

Are there any plans to fix guild rep for smaller guilds?
Community Manager
01/17/2011 12:25 PMPosted by Skyblade
So if this is the case, and you want people that contribute to gain the rewards, why is there an arbitrary weekly cap on how much reputation you can earn?

This seems like it's nothing more than another rep. grind designed to take as long as possible while keeping players chained down.


Something isn't arbitrary just because you don't understand it. Let's be a little more open minded here.

The weekly cap helps pace people so they aren't encouraged to do the most menial tasks to grind the rep 24/7, but instead, ideally, cap their rep while doing their normal weekly guild runs or PvP bouts.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
15175
01/17/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Bashiok


That does bring up an interesting idea of gifting someone rep who helped you out. An 85 jumps in to help you in a normal dungeon and you want to toss some rep his way for helping. Mmmm... I'm not sure how it could work and not just be a back scratcher, but it sounds cool.


In-guild rating system?
Vote-based, perhaps...an 85 helps out a lowbie run, lowbie "votes up" or gives the 85 some kind of rep point...
Of course it could be abused to no end unless it was strictly controlled. Institute a limit on how many "votes" a given character can use in a week...and it could be restricted to only positive things, so no one can act out on a grudge or guild drama by downvoting another player.
Certainly would encourage higher level players to help out.
Community Manager
01/17/2011 12:33 PMPosted by Goblinbob
Not only rep, but leveling is all jacked up.

If you're in a 200+ member guild, great. What about my bank guild? I keep alts there and level through it for access to my bank tabs for leveling professions and gearing up. I've gotten 4 toons to ~30's through this guild and I've barely moved the exp bar at all, let alone make the daily cap.

This whole idea needs to be rethought and redesigned so that every guild has the chance to level up and not spend the next 3 years doing so.


That's only a guild in technical definition that you got a charter signed. To design around such off-topic uses of guild banks would likely destroy the base intent. And, as you said, the experience bar has moved. You do have the ability to level it up, although it will be slower. Much, much slower.
Edited by Bashiok on 1/20/2011 12:26 PM PST
90 Night Elf Hunter
0
01/20/2011 12:23 PMPosted by Bashiok


That's only a guild in technical definition that you got a charter signed. To design around such off-topic uses of guild banks would likely destroy the base intent. And, as you said, the experience bar has moved. You do have the ability to level it up, although it will be slower.


You know, if you guys allowed people to purchase additional tabs for their personal banks, you'd probably get rid of a huge amount of personal bank guilds. I know I'd drop mine in a heartbeat, even though I've already got 3 tabs.

ps major gold sink
86 Worgen Hunter
7315
Diablo 2 will offer GUILD INNS!

Failed ideas are fail.
Community Manager
01/20/2011 12:28 PMPosted by Leidolf
Diablo 2 will offer GUILD INNS!

Failed ideas are fail.


I was so excited for those too...
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