Giving away gold and raffling items...wrong?

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86 Draenei Shaman
7505
Hello WoW Customer Support. I have been playing WoW off and on for almost 6 years, since beginning playing my number one goal as a player, raider, e-friend, etc was to make the game fun for the community. In many cases it was my server(s). Sargeras, Detheroc, Stormreaver and Black Dragonflight. The number one issue I have with the game is the community, immature people, rampant racism and the ease of "trollability" with nothing to get in the way.

Every server I've played on I have had many friends, a few disbelievers and a large fan base. I play for a top level WoW PvE guild, I've obtained various PvP achievements. My UI has been downloaded over 50,000 times and has been featured on the front page of MMO-Champion.

On paper people would think that I could potentially be a huge jerk to people. However this is never the case. I go out of my way to give gold to lowbies, make raiding and 5-mans fun, help out new players and in my current case fellow Shaman.

Example: I am giving away 21,000g for my B-day: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1869252543 (Feel free to read the whole thread).

Recently I received (a legit) e-mail saying that I was advertising non-WoW sites. And that I would receive an "educational warning." Fair enough? I don't know what I did wrong.

This is where I have become a little peeved and upset. Since coming back to Sargeras and holding raffles for items (for fun and not for profit) a few people whom I have on ignore have gone out of their way to send me hate tells, troll trade chat and belittle myself and my guild. All of these players I have never grouped with nor really communicated with. However they have been grouping up against me it seems. I have them on ignore, but my guild mates usually tell me what they say. I can only assume these are the handful of people that are trying to ruin myself trying to have fun with the community of Sargeras and raffle stuff and give my own gold away.

Tonight I received a message from a GM saying that my account was being suspended. This to me was weird because I had JUST received an e-mail that says I was given a warning (I guess for advertising my Vial of the Sands Raffle....a thread that was reported by said ignored individuals and deleted). After talking to this GM for ~2 minutes he/she told me to stop what I was doing and then log me off. I was in total disbelief....he couldn't really tell me anymore. However, then he logged off. I was never logged off. I don't know anything about my "suspension" or "harassment" that I seem to be doing.

How can I prevent this? Is there something wrong with helping the community and giving away gold and items on the forums and in-game? Am I not allowed to tell people that I'm a JCer and Enchanter?

Is it against the ToS to raffle off items? I have been raffling off mounts and other various vanity items for 5 years and have never gotten in trouble. Why are 3 or 4 people allowed to ruin my (and my servers) fun. Why am I not allowed to give away my personal gold?

And when I try to defend myself and try and prove that I am not a scammer by posting past contests that I've archived on Google Documents, I get warned for advertising non-WoW related websites? Is this serious? If so I will stop.

[e] I was just logged out of the game and have been suspended.
Edited by Natedawg on 1/17/2011 5:19 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
7570
It violates the ToU to advertise any game of chance in any in-game channel. You can hold them, you just can't advertise for them. This rule has been around for the past 2 years at least.
MVP
86 Night Elf Priest
7720
Here is the core policy.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=27048

At one time, any gambling / casino was against the rules. A couple of years ago, after a bit of a trial run, the policy was revised to allow gambling - but to make ANY and ALL advertising of that gambling against the rules. This is because a large number of players on many many realms disliked seeing the "ads" in any form. Attempts to bypass that with character or guild names, linking to external websites, posting it to the forums, etc. are also disallowed.
86 Draenei Shaman
7505
01/17/2011 5:20 PMPosted by Flatspriest
It violates the ToU to advertise any game of chance in any in-game channel. You can hold them, you just can't advertise for them. This rule has been around for the past 2 years at least.


Unfortunately according to my e-mail this was not why I received an account warning. I know that they lifted the ban on casinos, however you cannot spam advertise for them (something that I am not doing). On top of that they added Fortune Cards to the game, which allows people to advertise "games of chance."
85 Blood Elf Priest
7570
01/17/2011 5:25 PMPosted by Natedawg
It violates the ToU to advertise any game of chance in any in-game channel. You can hold them, you just can't advertise for them. This rule has been around for the past 2 years at least.


Unfortunately according to my e-mail this was not why I received an account warning. I know that they lifted the ban on casinos, however you cannot spam advertise for them (something that I am not doing). On top of that they added Fortune Cards to the game, which allows people to advertise "games of chance."
You can advertise selling Fortune Cards, but you cannot advertise them as a game of chance. Any advertising of games of chance at all is a violation of the rules and can get you suspended/banned as all it takes is one person to report spam you.
86 Draenei Shaman
7505
Here is the core policy.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=27048

At one time, any gambling / casino was against the rules. A couple of years ago, after a bit of a trial run, the policy was revised to allow gambling - but to make ANY and ALL advertising of that gambling against the rules. This is because a large number of players on many many realms disliked seeing the "ads" in any form. Attempts to bypass that with character or guild names, linking to external websites, posting it to the forums, etc. are also disallowed.


I understand, but this is not new for me. I have been doing this since BWL, open and publicly in all chat channels. This is not something new I'm trying to do or have been doing. I have talked to many GMs over the past six years and this has never been an issue with my account.

[e] So basically what my e-mail says is that I cannot link websites other than WoW Sites.

Offense: Advertising
This category includes advertisement of:

* Any non-beneficial, non-WoW related businesses, organizations, or websites
Edited by Natedawg on 1/17/2011 5:32 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Priest
7570
Here is the core policy.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=27048

At one time, any gambling / casino was against the rules. A couple of years ago, after a bit of a trial run, the policy was revised to allow gambling - but to make ANY and ALL advertising of that gambling against the rules. This is because a large number of players on many many realms disliked seeing the "ads" in any form. Attempts to bypass that with character or guild names, linking to external websites, posting it to the forums, etc. are also disallowed.


I understand, but this is not new for me. I have been doing this since BWL, open and publicly in all chat channels. This is not something new I'm trying to do or have been doing. I have talked to many GMs over the past six years and this has never been an issue with my account.
The point is that you are advertising in-game which is a violation of the policies. Just because others haven't reported you in the past does not mean that it is OK for you to do this. One report for spam is all it would take to get your account actions since the violation is occurring.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
7490
01/17/2011 5:25 PMPosted by Natedawg
Unfortunately according to my e-mail this was not why I received an account warning.


How are you involving the community? In what way are you informing them of this raffle, and trying to help them? That's what you were suspended for. If you are directing people to "archived Google documents", that is not an official WoW site.

On top of that they added Fortune Cards to the game, which allows people to advertise "games of chance."


Not quite. You are allowed to sell the cards in the AH, or even in Trade. But once you start advertising the cards as a "game of chance", then you are violating the rules.
5 Worgen Druid
0
"spam" doe not mean once every 10 seconds, or once a minute. It means "what the community will tolerate". If the users on the server see you post a raffle just once, they can report you for spam.

Please don't bring the Fortune Card into your discussion; it's an in game item that Blizzard gets to decide how much gold someone gets via their random number generator. It has nothing to do with player run games of chance.

Personally I'm aghast that people would complain if you are actually just giving away stuff.
86 Draenei Shaman
7505
01/17/2011 5:31 PMPosted by Kukuna
Personally I'm aghast that people would complain if you are actually just giving away stuff.


This is my main dilemma, these 4 or 5 people just sit around and troll trade chat all day long and call me a scammer. Anytime I post ANYTHING in trade chat they gang up on me and I assume report me for spamming/whatever.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
7490
I understand, but this is not new for me. I have been doing this since BWL, open and publicly in all chat channels. This is not something new I'm trying to do or have been doing. I have talked to many GMs over the past six years and this has never been an issue with my account.


The emphasized part is the key. You cannot do that. It's a reactive policy, and just because no one has reported you does not make it right.

[e] So basically what my e-mail says is that I cannot link websites other than WoW Sites.

Offense: Advertising
This category includes advertisement of:

* Any non-beneficial, non-WoW related businesses, organizations, or websites


No. Re-read what you quoted. Do not blow it out of proportion. Focus in on the first hyphenated word...
80 Blood Elf Paladin
7490
01/17/2011 5:34 PMPosted by Natedawg
This is my main dilemma, these 4 or 5 people just sit around and troll trade chat all day long and call me a scammer. Anytime I post ANYTHING in trade chat they gang up on me and I assume report me for spamming/whatever.


Yes, any player can report anything they wish to Blizzard. Once Blizzard investigated, they found that you broke the rules.
85 Tauren Druid
2515
01/17/2011 5:34 PMPosted by Natedawg
Personally I'm aghast that people would complain if you are actually just giving away stuff.


This is my main dilemma, these 4 or 5 people just sit around and troll trade chat all day long and call me a scammer. Anytime I post ANYTHING in trade chat they gang up on me and I assume report me for spamming/whatever.


It doesn't matter if it's one player, five, ten, or one hundred.

If Blizzard investigates and decides that what you're doing is against their rules, it doesn't matter how many people have sent in tickets; while more tickets regarding a matter does tend to reflect the fact that more people are put-out, all it takes is one person to notify them that rules may be broken.

I can sit around all day long and report someone I don't like. If no rules are broken, nothing happens -- and I can get into trouble for wasting Blizzard's time. If rules are broken, it doesn't matter if I'm the only person to ever report it -- action will be taken.
85 Night Elf Priest
2170
i'm in the fan club.

id apply to be a higher ranking member if we had some heroes.
Here is the core policy.

http://us.blizzard.com/support/article.xml?locale=en_US&articleId=27048

At one time, any gambling / casino was against the rules. A couple of years ago, after a bit of a trial run, the policy was revised to allow gambling - but to make ANY and ALL advertising of that gambling against the rules. This is because a large number of players on many many realms disliked seeing the "ads" in any form. Attempts to bypass that with character or guild names, linking to external websites, posting it to the forums, etc. are also disallowed.

If this is the case, why are people still allowed to bombard the trade channel with guild ads instead of using the channel provided for that? It's bloody annoying.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
7490
01/17/2011 6:24 PMPosted by Wiezzen
If this is the case, why are people still allowed to bombard the trade channel with guild ads instead of using the channel provided for that? It's bloody annoying.


Guild ads are not advertisments for gambling. I'm not sure how you connect the two...
01/17/2011 6:25 PMPosted by Madisón
If this is the case, why are people still allowed to bombard the trade channel with guild ads instead of using the channel provided for that? It's bloody annoying.


Guild ads are not advertisments for gambling. I'm not sure how you connect the two...

Her post mentioned a disliking for ads. I'm not the only one who's tired of having 5 lines of guild ads spammed every 10 seconds.
85 Human Rogue
7670
I'd like to start out with saying hello Natedawg. I don't know you personally or have ever been a part of your giveaways however I have always admired your kindness and generosity to the community.

For those that aren't on the server I'll let you know that Sargeras is full of a bunch of immature pricks, both young and old, and even so Natedawg continues to invest his time and resources to try to make it a better place. People use racial slurs 24 hours a day, spam chat with [orange] and [anal] links, advertise gold/RAF/gamecards/casinos/etc, and insult anyone with a legitimate question or trying to sell an item. In my 6 months or so that I've been on the server the only things I've seen him say had do to with Enchanting and another tradeskill that I can't recall and his giveaways.

Giving players a chance for a mount or a trinket that they could never afford on their own is a positive thing. Giving away gold out of one's "pocket" is extremely generous. A player that does this sort of thing should be patted on the back, not insulted, threatened, and/or suspended. This player is doing something that Blizzard should do themselves or at least encourage, not condone.

I'm not sure if a Blizzard moderator will ever read this but after reading this I think it's a shame that a player of this quality (as a person) is being punished. His actions weren't done out of greed but out of a generous nature which is far too unfamiliar in a gaming environment. I urge you folks to open your eyes, remove the suspension, and let him continue to try to make his community a better place to be. It's a shame that the negative/jealous/immature players can ruin/disrupt those of the good.

Good luck Natedawg, hope they do the right thing.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
7490
01/17/2011 6:30 PMPosted by Wiezzen
Her post mentioned a disliking for ads. I'm not the only one who's tired of having 5 lines of guild ads spammed every 10 seconds.


Yes, ads that refer to gambling. The context is super important.

With the new throttle, it can only be three lines. But if you find it annoying, right-click and Report Spam. Just because there's a throttle does not give permission to spam.

Guild ads are allowed in Trade. But if it's too often (which is truly subjective, to be honest), then report it.

I'd like to start out with saying hello Natedawg. I don't know you personally or have ever been a part of your giveaways however I have always admired your kindness and generosity to the community.

For those that aren't on the server I'll let you know that Sargeras is full of a bunch of immature pricks, both young and old, and even so Natedawg continues to invest his time and resources to try to make it a better place. People use racial slurs 24 hours a day, spam chat with [orange] and [anal] links, advertise gold/RAF/gamecards/casinos/etc, and insult anyone with a legitimate question or trying to sell an item. In my 6 months or so that I've been on the server the only things I've seen him say had do to with Enchanting and another tradeskill that I can't recall and his giveaways.

Giving players a chance for a mount or a trinket that they could never afford on their own is a positive thing. Giving away gold out of one's "pocket" is extremely generous. A player that does this sort of thing should be patted on the back, not insulted, threatened, and/or suspended. This player is doing something that Blizzard should do themselves or at least encourage, not condone.

I'm not sure if a Blizzard moderator will ever read this but after reading this I think it's a shame that a player of this quality (as a person) is being punished. His actions weren't done out of greed but out of a generous nature which is far too unfamiliar in a gaming environment. I urge you folks to open your eyes, remove the suspension, and let him continue to try to make his community a better place to be. It's a shame that the negative/jealous/immature players can ruin/disrupt those of the good.

Good luck Natedawg, hope they do the right thing.


To be honest, if you have never participated in his raffle, then you do not know if it's such an altruistic gesture. Like you said, the game is full of immaturity, so he may very well be one of those scammer. I'd like to look on the positive side with you and agree that he's being generous.

But it's no excuse to break the rules. There is no advertising allowed. It doesn't matter how well-intentioned you are, if you are breaking the rules.
Edited by Madisón on 1/17/2011 6:40 PM PST
100 Blood Elf Warlock
6390
01/17/2011 6:33 PMPosted by Bawstin
I'd like to start out with saying hello Natedawg. I don't know you personally or have ever been a part of your giveaways however I have always admired your kindness and generosity to the community.

For those that aren't on the server I'll let you know that Sargeras is full of a bunch of immature pricks, both young and old, and even so Natedawg continues to invest his time and resources to try to make it a better place. People use racial slurs 24 hours a day, spam chat with [orange] and [anal] links, advertise gold/RAF/gamecards/casinos/etc, and insult anyone with a legitimate question or trying to sell an item. In my 6 months or so that I've been on the server the only things I've seen him say had do to with Enchanting and another tradeskill that I can't recall and his giveaways.

Giving players a chance for a mount or a trinket that they could never afford on their own is a positive thing. Giving away gold out of one's "pocket" is extremely generous. A player that does this sort of thing should be patted on the back, not insulted, threatened, and/or suspended. This player is doing something that Blizzard should do themselves or at least encourage, not condone.

I'm not sure if a Blizzard moderator will ever read this but after reading this I think it's a shame that a player of this quality (as a person) is being punished. His actions weren't done out of greed but out of a generous nature which is far too unfamiliar in a gaming environment. I urge you folks to open your eyes, remove the suspension, and let him continue to try to make his community a better place to be. It's a shame that the negative/jealous/immature players can ruin/disrupt those of the good.

Good luck Natedawg, hope they do the right thing.


None of that matters at all. The rule is no advertising. It doesn't say, no advertising unless you are really, really a good person who is doing this out of the bottom of your heart. It says no advertising.
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