And the roller-coaster continues (dps wars)

85 Draenei Warrior
9045
Arms
Heroic Strike now scales from 60% of Attack Power, down from 93%.

Fury
Slam now deals 175% weapon damage plus 748. Up from 125% weapon damage plus 538.
Bloodsurge now also causes your instant and free Slam to deal 20% more damage.
Inner Rage now has a 30 sec cooldown and Reduces the cooldown of Heroic Strike and Cleave by 50% for 15 sec.
Recklessness now gives your special attacks an additional 50% to critically hit instead of giving your next 3 attacks a 100% chance to critically hit. Still lasts 12 sec and increases damage taken by 20%.
Raging Blow now deals 120% weapon damage, down from 145%.



Alright so we got HS down to totally worthless now
raging blow up 10% from live
and slam seems to be worth actually using now
Overall through not to sure what exactly to expect, HS being such a huge part of our damage currently and being nerfed so hard to the ground makes me think overall we losing dps, but quite a few other skills were buffed so might be a gain, really not to sure.

Also still nothing has been done about the horrible state of fury AoE, we are dead last in AoE damage and after the cleave nerf will be last by a long long shot.

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I'm a bit more curious what this will do for arms pve. It does need help but making slam too powerful may just make it a slam spamfest. Fury aoe isn't very good on live and is getting worse (prob best to go arms on aoe for now). But i think they really intend heroic strike to be used only in extreme rage settings. Just would be nice as fury to have something else to press in that span... perhaps increase bloodsurges proc chance? Could help SMF a bit more too.
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100 Tauren Paladin
17330
You definitely are not dead last in AoE.
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01/19/2011 8:00 AMPosted by Edgewalker
You definitely are not dead last in AoE.


But not in a place to be nerfed (fury i mean). Not close to surv (which the nerf was reverted on serpent spread) or unholy or demo or arms or fire. I'm ok with not buffing fury's aoe if thats the intended target and nerfing outliers, but nerfing a lower-mid aoe classes aoe attack is kind of odd.... i suppose its mostly because of the heroic strike nerf and since it shares a cd with cleave and cleave hit harder even on 1 target it would be silly....
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85 Draenei Warrior
8800
You need to stop referring to multi-target situations as "AoE". There is a difference. Fury is still good on live with 2-3 targets, while true AoE ability is limited to whirlwind and is pretty poor. But...... who really cares about true AoE encounters? How many of those are there in the current raid tier? Now with the cleave nerf fury will be pretty bad on multi-target fights (which there are a few) so that is a concern, but I honestly don't give a damn about the "many whelps, handle it!!" scenarios. Let the mages/boomkins/hunters/DKs deal with that crap.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
15685
I think subt. has to be in the running for last place aoe.
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570
01/19/2011 7:59 AMPosted by Scrambler
I'm a bit more curious what this will do for arms pve. It does need help but making slam too powerful may just make it a slam spamfest. Fury aoe isn't very good on live and is getting worse (prob best to go arms on aoe for now). But i think they really intend heroic strike to be used only in extreme rage settings. Just would be nice as fury to have something else to press in that span... perhaps increase bloodsurges proc chance? Could help SMF a bit more too.


Even if they made Slam too powerful I doubt it would change much. You'd still have to use Mortal Strike to keep Lambs of the Slaughter going, and Overpower's higher critical strike chance would still have us using it every time we could. And colossal Smash is colossal smash no matter how weak it hits.

Also for Fury AoE perhaps it will be like with Warlocks. I know on AOE fights like Magmaw they switch to Demonology. Perhaps we'll be fury for single target and Arms with Blood N Thunder for AoE.
Edited by Bladeknight on 1/19/2011 8:35 AM PST
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86 Worgen Warrior
1795
I'd still use HS in PvE because it's off the GCD and has enhanced Crit which would help keep Flurry up. It's not as if I have to conserve Rage to use HS; any rage spent on HS would have been wasted anyway, so it's worth using to gain some DPS no matter how low it's damage is.

I could see HS losing a lot of it's usefulness for Arms, but Slam seems poised to replace it.

I'm also kind of unsure what to expect. The thing that concerns me with Fury is that we're losing a *lot* of DPS off the GCD to gain DPS on the GCD. 50% of Fury's GCD's are used by Bloodthirst, so when you consider movement and the occasional need to apply debuffs (Sunder Armor is frequent, but Disarm and Hamstring are used occasionally in Heroics) it's pretty easy to miss a few Bloodsurge procs.

Even if we catch every proc, the proc rate on Bloodsurge is *really* unreliable. At 30%, it often leaves long gaps where Bloodsurge just doesn't proc. The proc rate means the DPS gained from Slam is extremely unpredictable until you extend a fight over a few minutes.

I've been goofing around on the target dummies to see what my normal Slam usage is. If I stay on target long enough to use Colossus Smash 10 times my Slam damage varies between 3% and 6% of my total damage on live. Due to the proc rate, I sometimes get to use Slam less frequently than I do CS.

Clam constantly contributes less of my total damage than Deep Wounds, even when I use it on every single Bloodsurge Proc.

The part that is worrisome is that we are losing a lot of DPS from an ability which can be used very reliably (I can practically predict when I'll have enough Rage for HS without watching), and having that DPS shifted to an ability which is used exceedingly infrequently, and which procs unreliably. If Slam is expected to make up for the DPS loss from HS, then Bloodsurge needs a much higher proc rate; at 30% you can still get long streaks with no procs
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5 Tauren Warrior
0
Any numbers on PTR comparing to live for Fury?

Quick math shows that the slam buff will not compensate for both the HS and the reverted RB.

It will buff SMF a ton but TG fury will be to the ground.

As for the title. Warriors have never been at the top this expansion. We have been low and now are getting to the point that we are going to be sat unless we are brought up elsewhere.
Edited by Grubern on 1/19/2011 9:19 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Warrior
6905
Fury really needs another reliable attack now that HS is being reduced (as it should be) Perhaps have the Bloodsurge talent allow our autoattacks to continue while casting Slam (ala Steady Shot) or just let us use Raging Blow without the need to be enraged.
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100 Human Warrior
15465
protip: HS is exactly where it has been for at least the last 3 PTR builds. MMO Champ just fails and had a tooltip error. HS was never buffed to 93%. It's only 75% on live and was nerfed by 20% early on. Nothing has changed.
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85 Worgen Warrior
9605
01/19/2011 9:14 AMPosted by Grubern
Any numbers on PTR comparing to live for Fury?

Quick math shows that the slam buff will not compensate for both the HS and the reverted RB.


We have better DPS on the PTR, and yes, it will likely compensate and then some.

01/19/2011 7:10 AMPosted by Gustu
Alright so we got HS down to totally worthless now
raging blow up 10% from live
and slam seems to be worth actually using now
Overall through not to sure what exactly to expect, HS being such a huge part of our damage currently and being nerfed so hard to the ground makes me think overall we losing dps, but quite a few other skills were buffed so might be a gain, really not to sure.


The HS "change" is a tooltip correction. HS has been 60% AP for the entirety of 4.0.6.
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85 Human Death Knight
2785
wait wait wait, slam now does more base damage than MS??
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85 Worgen Warrior
9605
I think MMO might have datamined the tooltip for Slam wrong, since it should be 145% weapon damage and not 175% weapon damage.
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100 Human Warrior
15465
01/19/2011 10:54 AMPosted by Samayael
I think MMO might have datamined the tooltip for Slam wrong, since it should be 145% weapon damage and not 175% weapon damage.


I'm hoping this is the case. It is possible however that between when they posted the patch notes and when they implemented it they changed their minds. For example, I doubt that Inner Rage having half the cooldown mentioned on the patch notes is a tooltip error.

But yeah, 175% base damage slam is just silly.
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85 Worgen Warrior
9605
True I suppose. We'll see?
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85 Undead Warrior
BUR
8650
175% base slam puts it at around 400% weapon damage for either spec (give or take) when one takes into account all the scaling factors from passive benefits, talents, and baseline enrage effects, pre crit.
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Community Manager
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.
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