And the roller-coaster continues (dps wars)

90 Human Warrior
13065
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


In this vein, is Slam being buffed to 145% as indicated from the last patch note update, or is the 175% datamined number from MMO-Champ correct? A difference in 30% weapon damage is pretty large and can make the difference in how Slam interracts with both Fury and Arms rotations.
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85 Goblin Warlock
7405
You should see this video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9iJQEbtlNg&feature=player_embedded# :D
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85 Human Priest
0
Simple fact is that warrior are way too overpowered. The class imbalances have ruined this game. And it will take blizzard forever to fix it.
Edited by Phoxi on 1/19/2011 3:12 PM PST
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01/19/2011 3:11 PMPosted by Phoxi
Simple fact is that warrior are way too overpowered. The class imbalances have ruined this game. And it will take blizzard forever to fix it.


Did you miss the warrior nerfs?

Fury also got its super burst nerfed from when raging blow was doing crazy damage, bloodsurge hardly procs in PvP.
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01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.


Zarhym, you have my sypathy.

I can just imagine Zarhym in the office, scowling at his computer:
"Argh people! How many times do we have to tell you not to trust bad data-mining!
If something looks funny, log into the PTR and test it!
Stop panicing every time (particular mmo site) makes guesses about changes!
...must be polite, must be polite... grrr!"


I wish you the best of luck with the patch notes!
I hope (paraticular mmo site) can back off and tone down, or maybe hope people will stop trusting them as much.
Edited by Inushi on 1/19/2011 3:19 PM PST
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5 Tauren Warrior
0
Actually when any patch information 'has' to be data mined, there are other issues.

A 20% buff to an ability that does 6% of our damage (slam) does not make up for an 18% nerf to an ability that does around 25% of our damage (RB at 145%).

I am really confused that Blue thinks that this would even out (it it mathmatically not possible).

If it isn't designed to even out, with the HS nerf, we are still at either just at breaking even or a net loss for a DPS spec that was already low according to GC.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
0
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


Any chance we could see some buffs to Single Minded Fury? With the new paradigm of Raging blow being very important and HS not so much I'm afraid SMF will fall behind. (Despite SMF Slam being slightly better, and BT being debatable due to extra AP from 2h weapons)

Maybe make raging blow do 100% for both weapons with SMF instead of less damage for the OH.
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85 Draenei Warrior
8910
Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.



Happens pretty often. I recommend people click the "blue" link in the top right of those posts. Half the time it links to NO SOURCE AT ALL.
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85 Goblin Warrior
9500
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios,


Okay, you got me. How can you not see the ridiculous burst that can be created by buffs to mastery scaling and Raging Blow? Not to mention it's all topped off with Deathwish scaling with mastery's absurd rate as well.

I've played with the Raging Blow buff on the PTR for a while, saying it is unlikely burst (really got me here) is unbelievable to me. It takes a whole CS, simple CD macro, and a Raging Blow to kill anything with less than 3k resilience instantly (This is minimal setup, not BiS gear, enchanting, or procs). Even then, one attack can eat 70% of a very geared player's HP.

I would really like to see something done to Fury's mastery to not make it's PvP potential overpowered (that would cause incidental nerfing to the PvE aspect) and yet keep it viable in both. Honestly, spreading out damage from raging blow would make me happy too, it just scales from way too many aspects too well.
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85 Night Elf Death Knight
3080
01/19/2011 3:18 PMPosted by Inushi
That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.


Zarhym, you have my sypathy.

I can just imagine Zarhym in the office, scowling at his computer:
"Argh people! How many times do we have to tell you not to trust bad data-mining!
If something looks funny, log into the PTR and test it!
Stop panicing every time (particular mmo site) makes guesses about changes!
...must be polite, must be polite... grrr!"


I wish you the best of luck with the patch notes!
I hope (paraticular mmo site) can back off and tone down, or maybe hope people will stop trusting them as much.


If Blizzard released notes, we wouldn't have to rely on datamining?
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85 Worgen Warrior
9605
01/19/2011 3:15 PMPosted by Vulgrym
You also took it out of War Academy, which is another 15%.

I'm all for changes that push HS into the niche that it was intended (i.e. rage dump instead of prime rotational ability) but the compensatory changes to RB and BS really don't make up for what was lost given how much of our damage outlay came from HS in the first place.


I wouldn't be so sure of that actually. Considering something we hit every 3 seconds got buffed by 30%, RB gets buffed to 120% and is added to War Academy and our mastery gets a buff, and Slam gets megabuffed, I think we should easily break even, if not get more DPS out of these changes. When RB was at 145% damage, Fury was massively buffed. At 120%, we should still be buffed.

A 20% buff to an ability that does 6% of our damage (slam) does not make up for an 18% nerf to an ability that does around 25% of our damage (RB at 145%).

I am really confused that Blue thinks that this would even out (it it mathmatically not possible).

If it isn't designed to even out, with the HS nerf, we are still at either just at breaking even or a net loss for a DPS spec that was already low according to GC.


It's actually a 40% buff (Slam got a baseline 20% buff and Bloodsurge buffs it an additional 20%), and RB is still considerably buffed over life. Add to that the BT megabuff, and we should easily at least break even compared to now.
Edited by Samayael on 1/19/2011 3:28 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
0
Fury definitely got an overall DPS buff with these changes. Will have to see how much once it hits live and is actually in a real raid environment, since SMF DPS varies WILDLY based on having raid buffs and not having raid buffs. (I barely do 10k in heroics as SMF but I pull near 17k in raids)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
6165
01/19/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Kudia
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.

Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.

No sounds like someone didn't bother to read mmo's disclaimer they put up every time someone reports data mined information to them.

It sounds like someone with horse blinders just went "HERP DERP IM READING BLUE POSTS ON MMO CHAMP AND I AM NOT PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT BOUBOUILLE SAYS ABOUT"
Patch 4.0.6 - PTR Build 13529
A new build will be deployed on test realms very soon with a bunch of new changes. You probably already saw some of them in the official notes update from the past week, keep in mind that datamining isn't an exact science, if you're not sure about a change and if it's not in the official patch notes, wait for a confirmation from a blue poster before you whine about it.

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85 Human Paladin
2820
Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.

lol'd because that's along the lines of what I thought. Nice one.
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85 Human Warrior
9490
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


Cool, I knew this I believe got mentioned before by a green poster. But still, Heroic Strike got nerfed. War Academy, no longer buffs Heroic Strike, that's a 15% of damage loss there. Not that I don't like the nerf, because I know was necessary to reduce our burst damage on PvP, just pointing it out :P

BTW, what about our AoE. I believe the Cleave nerf was because of the Prot spec doing tons of damage on AoE. But why nerfing Cleave something that every warrior uses instead of nerfing other of the many AoE abilities warrior Prot haves. I mean, Fury only haves Cleave and WW working together with the Meat Cleaver talent for AoE. Arms haves Cleave, Swiping strikes("sometimes" Thunder Clap), and maybe Bladestorm(that if you don't already used it for single target dps). But Prot, haves Thunder Clap, Thunderstruck, Blood and Thunder, Cleave(buffed by Thunderstruck!), Revenge, Glyph of Sunder Armor and the famous Shockwave. Don't you agree there is ton of room to nerf warrior prot AoE on other abilities rather than going straight to Cleave?

And to point out!(again) War Academy no longer buffs Cleave, I believe something happened to Meat Cleaver and the Cleave itself got nerfed D:

I would appreciate if you take this to the developers or if I'm mistaken you can or any other warrior explain me if I'm wrong D:
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5 Tauren Warrior
0
Is this live on PTR (I am at work)?

If so, has anyone done any direct damage testing against live?
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