And the roller-coaster continues (dps wars)

85 Orc Warrior
6545
Zarhym any news on fixing warrior AoE as fury?
Because especially with the cleave nerf its going to be annoying to try and AoE down adds that need strong AoE fast like the adds in both magmaw and maloriak encounters.
Reply Quote
89 Blood Elf Warrior
8235
AoE as Fury isnt only about Cleave and WW, there is more to it.


Except not really. That's all we have. Stance-dancing for Tclap isn't exactly a viable solution.

Azzinoth, where else would you put that damage? You can't re-add it to Raging Blow, and BT already got a mega-buff. Slam itself needed a buff anyways, so buffing that plus making our Bloodsurge procs much more worthwhile works. It also helps bring SMF up, so to me it's a logical place to add it.

Bloodsurge could be made a bit more consistent (10-20% chance to proc from all melee attacks instead of 30% from BT), but that's RNG. It's going to be unreliable by its very nature.


Could just take my suggestion from another thread, make Rend usable in berserker stance and add to deep wounds (or something else in the fury tree) the ability to extend the duration of rend everytime you crit.

Also make it so that Rend calculates both of your weapons damage when using SMF.

Helps arms and fury sustained DPS in PVE.
Edited by Ahlen on 1/19/2011 4:16 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Mage
5995
Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.


Not really. MMO-Champ basically tells you not to trust their data either, that data mining has inherant flaws, yada yada. Its just that dip****s like the OP ignore this and whine the second data mined stuff is released.
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Warrior
9605
01/19/2011 4:13 PMPosted by Warrax
I agree that it is kinda awkward to use but the results still shows good dps to me and if they buff WW or the cleave talent, I dont mind but I'll still use HL and TC for even more aoe dps even with the rage loss from Zerk stance.


I'm doubting that you're getting more AoE DPS out of that compared to just Cleave + WW. The rage generation you'd need for that is a bit silly.

Could just take my suggestion from another thread, make Rend usable in berserker stance and add to deep wounds (or something else in the fury tree) the ability to extend the duration of rend everytime you crit.

Also make it so that Rend calculates both of your weapons damage when using SMF.

Helps arms and fury sustained DPS in PVE.


Fury isn't supposed to rely on bleeds like that, so it doesn't necessarily fit in with its kit. Fury should rely on things like Raging Blow and Bloodsurge, but they need to just be a bit more reliable. No need to muddy things up with Rend.
Edited by Samayael on 1/19/2011 4:19 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
12135
01/19/2011 3:47 PMPosted by Zarhym
If Blizzard released notes, we wouldn't have to rely on datamining?

What? The patch notes on the front page of our website were updated twice between the last build and today's build. That means many of the changes being applied to the Public Test Realms today were already announced in the patch notes last week.
Yeah, Blizzard's been better at keeping the patch notes up to date for this patch than they've been for pretty much every patch ever. Anybody remember the 3.0 patch notes? Yeah, those were pretty bad.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8855
01/19/2011 4:14 PMPosted by Kynsa
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


So according to what your saying there's a problem with the client reporting bad data?

I trust third party websites more then you or Blizzard.


I lol'd.
Reply Quote
I agree that it is kinda awkward to use but the results still shows good dps to me and if they buff WW or the cleave talent, I dont mind but I'll still use HL and TC for even more aoe dps even with the rage loss from Zerk stance.


I'm doubting that you're getting more AoE DPS out of that compared to just Cleave + WW. The rage generation you'd need for that is a bit silly.


I'm talking about 5+ targets here, not 3 or less.

As for Rage, I don't have a problem, HL is free, doing Cleave + WW then switching to Battle Stance to TC is usually not a rage loss because you already spent it to under 30 with Cleave+WW anyway. Stance Dancing is not a problem with enough Hit, Battle Shout and good rage management.

Btw I'm not against an aoe buff, I'm just saying that it is currently fine if you manage well enough but I agree that our aoe source should only be WW and Cleave (as Fury) and that we should be discouraged to do TC and HL to AoE as Fury so I hope they can do something about it like greatly reduce WW cooldown.
Edited by Warrax on 1/19/2011 4:32 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Orc Hunter
5425
01/19/2011 3:47 PMPosted by Zarhym
If Blizzard released notes, we wouldn't have to rely on datamining?

What? The patch notes on the front page of our website were updated twice between the last build and today's build. That means many of the changes being applied to the Public Test Realms today were already announced in the patch notes last week.
From the 14th?
Really up to date there.

The real question is why does a 3rd party site have to date mine patch notes when you should be releasing them before the patch even hits the PTR servers.
Reply Quote
01/19/2011 4:18 PMPosted by Suzushiiro

What? The patch notes on the front page of our website were updated twice between the last build and today's build. That means many of the changes being applied to the Public Test Realms today were already announced in the patch notes last week.
Yeah, Blizzard's been better at keeping the patch notes up to date for this patch than they've been for pretty much every patch ever. Anybody remember the 3.0 patch notes? Yeah, those were pretty bad.
The funny part is blizz is probably in cahoots with MMO champs bad data.

After all, how many warriors would have rage quit wow upon seeing all those nerfs, then suddenly they see huge buffs on MMO champ... which might cause them to calm down a bit without making rash decisions. Coincidence? Yeah right. this is a billion dollar corporation.. think as cynical as possible.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Warrior
6730
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.


Yet it is more than that because of changes to talents that used to enhance Heroic Strike.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warrior
6730
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


What about for Prot Wars? If the intent wasn't to nerf our damage either, is there something that will compensate for the 20% Cleave AoE nerf and 20% Heroic Strike nerf?
Edited by Cizzle on 1/19/2011 4:35 PM PST
Reply Quote
8 Troll Hunter
0
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.
well we can't always trust first-party info either. sometimes blizz's right hand doesn't know what the left is doing, and patch notes are often incomplete or wrong, so 3rd parties doublechecking them is good

hey, since a blue poster is reading this thread, can you remove the deadzone on long arm of the law yet, and make judgment give holy power? i've had my paladin shelved since cata and would like it to be fun again
Edited by Sephres on 1/19/2011 4:42 PM PST
Reply Quote
89 Blood Elf Warrior
8235
01/19/2011 4:17 PMPosted by Samayael
I agree that it is kinda awkward to use but the results still shows good dps to me and if they buff WW or the cleave talent, I dont mind but I'll still use HL and TC for even more aoe dps even with the rage loss from Zerk stance.


I'm doubting that you're getting more AoE DPS out of that compared to just Cleave + WW. The rage generation you'd need for that is a bit silly.

Could just take my suggestion from another thread, make Rend usable in berserker stance and add to deep wounds (or something else in the fury tree) the ability to extend the duration of rend everytime you crit.

Also make it so that Rend calculates both of your weapons damage when using SMF.

Helps arms and fury sustained DPS in PVE.


Fury isn't supposed to rely on bleeds like that, so it doesn't necessarily fit in with its kit. Fury should rely on things like Raging Blow and Bloodsurge, but they need to just be a bit more reliable. No need to muddy things up with Rend.


I was looking at it from more of a "things that won't make us OP in PVP but will help PVE" point of view.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Priest
11850
Yeah, Blizzard's been better at keeping the patch notes up to date for this patch than they've been for pretty much every patch ever. Anybody remember the 3.0 patch notes? Yeah, those were pretty bad.
The funny part is blizz is probably in cahoots with MMO champs bad data.

After all, how many warriors would have rage quit wow upon seeing all those nerfs, then suddenly they see huge buffs on MMO champ... which might cause them to calm down a bit without making rash decisions. Coincidence? Yeah right. this is a billion dollar corporation.. think as cynical as possible.


Or...MMO-Champion got them wrong.

keep in mind that datamining isn't an exact science, if you're not sure about a change and if it's not in the official patch notes, wait for a confirmation from a blue poster before you whine about it.


If you have any doubt, check the official patch notes and if official patch notes do not exist for that change just assume it's very temporary or wrong
Reply Quote
13 Troll Shaman
30
01/19/2011 4:35 PMPosted by Cizzle
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


What about for Prot Wars? If the intent wasn't to nerf our damage either, is there something that will compensate for the 20% Cleave AoE nerf and 20% Heroic Strike nerf?


Charge's stun continues to not trigger diminishing returns for Protection warriors who have the Warbringer talent. Thats all the compensation you get!
Reply Quote
86 Goblin Warrior
10340
What about arms dps in PvE. I love that spec but it has been and still is one of the lowest dps specs through most of wrath and now in cata as well. I would love to play Arms without holding back our raids.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warrior
6730



What about for Prot Wars? If the intent wasn't to nerf our damage either, is there something that will compensate for the 20% Cleave AoE nerf and 20% Heroic Strike nerf?



Charge's stun continues to not trigger diminishing returns for Protection warriors who have the Warbringer talent. Thats all the compensation you get!


hahaha :(
Edited by Cizzle on 1/19/2011 4:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
85 Worgen Warrior
9605
01/19/2011 4:43 PMPosted by Ahlen
I was looking at it from more of a "things that won't make us OP in PVP but will help PVE" point of view.


Buffing Bloodsurge and making it more consistent while being still RNG does that.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]