And the roller-coaster continues (dps wars)

55 Undead Death Knight
0
You do realize that all Warriors wanted was a dps increase with a burst nerf this patch right? There are many ways to do that from live.

Instead we see mobility gutted and even more burst in the already-higher-than-arms-burst tree. Not what we wanted and the QQ about Warriors globaling bad players will flood the forums. It's not what we want either.
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44 Dwarf Priest
390
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


It's painfully obvious to everyone in the community that fury burst is out of control and arms is basically a useless spec on the PTR. Though I hope this gets fixed soon, Blizzard's track record suggests otherwise.

Has anyone else noticed a pattern where Blizzard totally unbalances certain specs and the WoW community tells them about it immediately. But instead of just fixing it they say "Ehh I dunno guys I think it might be pretty balanced." Then after we're forced to play with that crap for a few months Blizzard finally admits "Oh yeah, I guess that spec is imbalanced after all."
Edited by Hilbert on 1/20/2011 7:34 AM PST
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85 Night Elf Hunter
2775
Pro Tip: The community in general on the forums have extremely narrow views of "balance". Watching videos of a spec burst (Fury every 5 minutes), crazy heal or dps under a special set of circumstances (Reckoning Bomb) isn't really a valid "balance" issue. Especially when most (myself included) players have a vested interest in their favored class or classes being great or even the best at X, Y, or Z. Given Blizzards track record is good enough to hold several million players and gain more? I'll have to side with Blizzard.
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85 Night Elf Mage
7210
01/19/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Kudia
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.

Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.


Not really. The only people that were "owned" were the people that didn't read the disclaimer more or less saying his "information can be inaccurate, don't whine about it".

If Blizzard wanted to stop datamining, they could easily encrypt the files. I'm inclined to believe they actually like it. Obviously moderators have to put out the odd fire, but for the most part datamining sparks interest and discussion about upcoming changes. This is a good thing as it keeps people interested in the game, and promotes people to log participate in the testing process. This might not be Blizzards stance on it, but datamining isn't "bad" because a few people have less than satisfactory reading skills.
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85 Worgen Warrior
9605
01/20/2011 6:57 AMPosted by Grimraven
Test it, it is.


have you tested it after raging blow's damage was reduced back to 120% down from 145% ?
Also is BT damage increased by 30% on current PTR or is it a false info on mmo-champion?


Yes, still an increase. Not as big as when RB was 145% weapon damage, but it's still an increase. BT has been increased by 30%, why would that be false information? It's on the official patch notes.
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100 Night Elf Warrior
20195
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


How about some explanation of the logic behind the new Inner Rage? Why would we want to lower the CD on moves that we already cannot use on cd every cd anyways due to not having enough rage? While dps and even while tanking the hardest hitting mobs in the game.

Why do we need another rage dumping ability when we have nothing to dump? Are you going to halve the cost of HS and Cleave to compensate? Or is rage generation going to be changed? People are very confused atm.


And the hs/cleave nerf is more than 20% when you factor in War Academy, which most are forgetting.


Oh and P.S is it your intention that all Prot Wars Drop imp revenge and go deep wounds+cruelty. Then fall back on a 2 button devastate+shield slam rotation next patch for maximum single target tps/dps. Going by EJ/Tankspot numbers this is the way things are going. Prot Wars reduced to a 2 button rotation.
Edited by Matayas on 1/20/2011 8:52 AM PST
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85 Orc Warrior
4100
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.



so nerf arms to make us to go fury... dont wanna play fury
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90 Orc Warlock
0
Heaven forbid that a class should suffer a dps loss! What is this travesty!? Classes get nerfed and buffed all the time. In the end, you'll still do plenty of dmg and have the potential to down the hardest content in the game on ANY class.
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pwnd
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85 Tauren Warrior
5455
01/19/2011 3:04 PMPosted by Kudia

Oh snap. Sounds like some champion of mmos just got owned.


I see what you did there.




Also, I like the changes so far, Its sad that Arms will effectively be out of the question as a pve spec, but at least fury is going to hit like a truck.
Edited by Legäl on 1/20/2011 1:05 PM PST
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84 Night Elf Druid
5770
01/19/2011 3:47 PMPosted by Zarhym
If Blizzard released notes, we wouldn't have to rely on datamining?

What? The patch notes on the front page of our website were updated twice between the last build and today's build. That means many of the changes being applied to the Public Test Realms today were already announced in the patch notes last week.


Now you just need to do it consitently, and accurately(which you haven't in the past :P just sayin')
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80 Human Warlock
2095
01/19/2011 3:03 PMPosted by Zarhym
Heroic Strike was never 93% damage. That was just bad data-mining. You can't always trust the automated tools of third-party websites to correctly extract and organize all of the client data being sorted through. This type of misleading information has come out several times now over the course of testing patches 4.0.3 and 4.0.6, so it's a really good idea for players to be suspicious of data-mined material.

We brought down Heroic Strike to 60% (20% decrease in overall damage from live realms), and it has stayed at 60% throughout 4.0.6 development.

We did buff Raging Blow (and some other stuff) to compensate for the Heroic Strike nerf, since the intent was to make Heroic Strike a clear rage dump and not to lower warrior damage. We were concerned our initial buff of Raging Blow was too high, leading to possible (but realistically pretty unlikely) burst scenarios, so we took it down a little (but still higher than on live realms), and buffed Slam instead to make the Bloodsurge proc something you actually want to take advantage of.


After some testing i found the SMF is lacking dps due to some of these nerfs/buffs in comparison to TG. The so call buff to slam and RB is all RNG, you really need to fix fury's sustain damage. The best way i can figure out is add a modifier to SMF to also increase the stats you get from both weapons multiplying by 2.

Dps overall in the PTR is still underpar compared to live. I think i can recall when GC stated the fury is on the low end on damage dealing and most likely gonna buff it up some. but the way i see it right now...nothing has changed much, except the nerfs. Moving dps from a reliable ability to proc based is not the way to go.
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100 Human Warrior
15465
Dps overall in the PTR is still underpar compared to live. I think i can recall when GC stated the fury is on the low end on damage dealing and most likely gonna buff it up some. but the way i see it right now...nothing has changed much, except the nerfs. Moving dps from a reliable ability to proc based is not the way to go.


+40% damage to slam
+30% damage to BT
+25% damage to RB

They buffed literally every reliable ability Fury has. Most warriors Ive seen on the warrior forum testing are showing an increase in Damage done at least with TG.
Edited by Secondwind on 1/20/2011 4:52 PM PST
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89 Blood Elf Warrior
8235
01/20/2011 9:17 AMPosted by Grimraven


How about some explanation of the logic behind the new Inner Rage? Why would we want to lower the CD on moves that we already cannot use on cd every cd anyways due to not having enough rage? While dps and even while tanking the hardest hitting mobs in the game.

Why do we need another rage dumping ability when we have nothing to dump? Are you going to halve the cost of HS and Cleave to compensate? Or is rage generation going to be changed? People are very confused atm.


And the hs/cleave nerf is more than 20% when you factor in War Academy, which most are forgetting.


Oh and P.S is it your intention that all Prot Wars Drop imp revenge and go deep wounds+cruelty. Then fall back on a 2 button devastate+shield slam rotation next patch for maximum single target tps/dps. Going by EJ/Tankspot numbers this is the way things are going. Prot Wars reduced to a 2 button rotation.


I am guessing they changed Inner Rage mainly for Prot Warriors. I would disagree that as a prot I don't have excessive rage. Cleave and heroic strike will get nerfed but with Inner rage you can use them more often...while Inner rage is active at least...


Old inner rage was way better for prot warriors.
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85 Draenei Priest
9095
01/19/2011 3:47 PMPosted by Zarhym
If Blizzard released notes, we wouldn't have to rely on datamining?

What? The patch notes on the front page of our website were updated twice between the last build and today's build. That means many of the changes being applied to the Public Test Realms today were already announced in the patch notes last week.

There have been many undocumented changes in the past and in the current PTR Build. While I can understand that every tooltip and bug fix and minor change could not possibly be documented in the patch notes, but there have been important changes that have been made that were never documented.
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80 Human Warlock
2095
01/20/2011 4:51 PMPosted by Secondwind
Dps overall in the PTR is still underpar compared to live. I think i can recall when GC stated the fury is on the low end on damage dealing and most likely gonna buff it up some. but the way i see it right now...nothing has changed much, except the nerfs. Moving dps from a reliable ability to proc based is not the way to go.


+40% damage to slam
+30% damage to BT
+25% damage to RB

They buffed literally every reliable ability Fury has. Most warriors Ive seen on the warrior forum testing are showing an increase in Damage done at least with TG.


The problem with that is, RB and slam aren't reliable. slam proc's chance is what 30%? so i get a 30% chance to do 1 40% buff slam with proc, there's no telling when bloodsurge will proc again. slam = RNG = not reliable.

Same with RB when you have 2 options to use it, either by using berserker rage which is on a 30 sec CD or the 9% chance that a melee attack will activate enrage. its more reliable than slam but i still have RB downtime in which again RB = RNG = not so reliable.

Now you take all those buffs you mentioned and look at the % lost to RNG and we don't really gain much.

But then again, this is SMF im talking about, TG scales better with all the extra stats from 2 2h as oppose to using 2 1h with half the stats and the 15% extra dmg with SMF. im still doing less.

Too much RNG and too little sustainable is all im saying.
Edited by Kount on 1/20/2011 9:44 PM PST
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