Going Walkabout: A Tanking Movement Guide

85 Human Warrior
0
This is a thoughtful and, as far as my skill can attest, complete guide.

Any tips on preventing mobs from triggering their "flanking" maneuver? I sometimes get that when repositioning and I've never quite put my finger on how it triggers.
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85 Undead Death Knight
5185
@Muscle
@Raar
I can't really see how jumping can make you move faster given that it simply carries your movement
I would be curious to see whether it is actually the direction of the strafing that is what makes you move faster, if you are in fact moving faster, and if i get some time is will test it out with and w/o jumping compared to just moving sideways.


It could be the "diagonal strafing" is "faster" because of the supposed enhanced server response time. I bet thats it. Interesting.
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
@Jerrick

Someone can step in and correct me if im wrong here but afaik the flanking you are talking about is dependent upon the amount of enemies that you are tanking. If its only 1-3 enemies they don't overlap that much and so they simply stand in front of you; However, the more enemies that are trying to hit you the more they spread around you.

Imagine a table in the middle of a room with a door on one side. Tell two people to get in, pick something up off the table and then get out as fast as possible, and they will run to the front of the table and run back. Now do it with 50 people and they will spread out around the table in order to get as close as possible. Now I know they don't actually have to worry about collision but the behavior is the same.

TL:DR
I don't think you can do anything proactively, I think it will be mostly reactive, and there is a section in there on tanking large groups where i tried to address that.
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85 Human Warrior
0
@Jey
I realize that with large groups, there's only so much you can do. I'd welcome any tips on not twitching the wrong way and causing them all to run through me, but it's not a huge deal.

I'm more worried about bosses that take up position where I don't want them...and now that I think on it, the answer may lie in the strafing behavior that you've already outlined.
Edited by Jerrick on 1/25/2011 2:50 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Nicely done! And seriously didnt know about he jumping thing lol.

Getting the boss/target to back up, its something I picked up and learnt quite a while ago, but never realised I had been doing it, sorta sub-consciously, they way you explained it made a lot of sense.

Good stuff, very helpful to the new tank.
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85 Tauren Shaman
3675
Suggestion here, perhaps you could add:

Moving casters without silence:
While standing in melee range, take a tiny step away from them. Wait till they take a tiny step closer, repeat. If you move too far at once and step out of melee range, they will typically begin a spell, so just small steps.
Edited by Diamonium on 1/26/2011 12:53 AM PST
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85 Human Paladin
10995
Great post, recommended for a sticky! Very helpful. The backing up trick - if I can get it to work - will be super helpful in raids for positioning bosses into helpful fires or moving an errant mob into D&D or some such.
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90 Tauren Druid
10955
Sticky please.
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85 Blood Elf Warrior
10135
01/20/2011 3:19 PMPosted by Feranel
Because of this, jumping out of "the fire" etc. actually takes longer than runing, and can actually kill you when it's something like a one-shot blast template, and the game still registers you as being at your start off position.
This seems to apply to heroic leaping, which I suppose makes sense, as I've died a few times at my landing position not to a melee attack but AOE effects I know I was technically out of (or at least mid-air out of at time of detonation).

Good guide. I remember the Ciderhelm video on tank pulling and positioning and it was one of those things that changed how I played :p
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Common sense rarely makes sense and when it does its anything but common.
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
I am guessing you are just trolling but im gonna respond anyway.

Yeah the beginning part is mostly common knowledge that you can get from reading the manual that came with the game, but if you want to try and explain to me how the game reacting differently when you strafe as opposed to simply running forward, due to enhanced server response, is common sense then by all means go for it.

Sorry for the late respond i was having technical issues. I am planning on looking into if strafing at an angle does in fact make you run faster, as well as testing the moving of casters by getting into melee and moving away slowly to see if i can determine a solid way of getting it to work as well as an explanation. I will most likely have that testing done by tomorrow afternoon.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback so far.
Edited by Jey on 1/27/2011 9:09 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
7655
01/20/2011 10:36 AMPosted by Jey
People may freak a little when the boss turns towards the raid and then back to you


Heh. But that's part of the fun. ^^

And, oh yeah... I gently remind people in any raids I'm leading that you should never be jumping unless there's a specific mechanic that requires it. I've seen a few people killed because they spent a second longer in the fire than they needed to because they decided that jumping out was better than running.
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85 Undead Death Knight
5185
testing the moving of casters by getting into melee and moving away slowly to see if i can determine a solid way of getting it to work as well as an explanation.


I tried this out last night on trash mobs in BoT.

How I did this was, i would inch a few backwards, it would follow me. Did this until it casted, interrupted, inched backwards, followed me.

The reason for inching backwards instead of full out running is to keep in range incase you drop aggro while you are positioning it, right?

edit:borked my quote
Edited by Muscle on 1/28/2011 5:40 AM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
Ok so i did my testing on the run speed and the caster movement thing and here is what i got.

Movement:
I chose a path that had a clear start and end point and not much variance in width. My path was the wooden slats that run between the two zeplin towers in orgrimmar.

I tested it running, strafing, strafing+jumping, angle strafing, and angle strafing+jumping and all of these resulted in the same time of about 16.6 seconds. each of these was done 3-4 times so as to not get an off result and all were at that time.

I decided to do a longer run and so i did the length of it 4 times consecutively without stopping the clock. It took me 104 seconds angle strafing and 104 adding in the jumping.

So i am going to go out and say that no matter the direction of your strafe or whether you jump or not, has a bearing on your speed. One things that i also noticed was that when i jumped it was far harder to control, in fact i had to redo my long run because i ran into a pole and got stuck. So stay on the ground.


About the moving of casters. I am going to explain what i found and if the guy comes back and tells me thats what he meant i will add it in because it could have some uses. If not i may add it anyway but we shall see.

I do not actually think that the close range is for making sure you are in range to get an attack off if you lose/are losing threat on the caster.

I found that when the enemy was far away from me (around 15 yards) he would simply stand there and chain cast at me until his mana ran out and then he would run up and start hitting me.

Then I decided to just stand up in his face and see what he did. When he is just chain casting, nothing is different; however, there are points that the enemy pauses for maybe a second or half second and then starts casting again. When i stood in melee range, that half second that he paused would be filled with a melee swing whereas it was simply a pause when he was at range. then i tried what i think the poster meant.

I waited for the guy to start casting and then took a step back, i was still close enough to hit him but just barely. He started chain casting at me and nothing happened until that slight pause when he ran forward and hit me and then started casting again. It wasnt much but he did move forward. It seemed as though he moved forward to me as long as the distance that i was away, was a distance that he could cover in the time that he would have taken to pause.

that is what I found. Interestingly you would potentially take more damage being in melee range of a caster.

Anyways, muscle you can tell that tank that there is no difference in the move speed and diamonium if that isnt what you meant, perhaps a little more clarity and i will go out and start attacking some casters again ( worth noting though that this does work to back up ranged enemies quite effectively, exactly as described).
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
didn't realize how far back this got

/shameless bump
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90 Tauren Druid
10955
Bump for fantastic guide.
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
up
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85 Dwarf Shaman
5290
One thing to possibly add, even though "moving out of stuff" wasn't a topic, but was mentioned, is how the game records jumping.

When you jump the game records your position when you left the ground, and does not register your lateral position until you land.

Because of this, jumping out of "the fire" etc. actually takes longer than runing, and can actually kill you when it's something like a one-shot blast template, and the game still registers you as being at your start off position.


This doesn't seem right to me at all.

Is there a source for this information?

Sounds to me more like a server-latency problem.


Does this mean if you jump off a cliff out of the fire, you'll take fire dmg all the way down until you hit the ground? =P

Or if you heroic leap/goblin boots/disengage out for that matter.
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85 Tauren Druid
8240
It is not a server latency problem. I dont really have a source to prove to you absolutely but there is some things i can list off that may make it clearer why we take this stance.

On the worm in stonecore during the tunneling phase it is really easy to die because you jumped away from the ground effect and died because you didnt land in time. I watched our guilds hunter disengage on time and clear it with like 5 yards in between him and the ground effect but he still died because he hadn't landed yet.

If you jump before you enter water you carry your speed until you hit the water and then you slow down. This is not entirely the same however there is a difference of location involved. If you want a more concrete example: the frost on the ground in the al'akir encounter can be partially traversed at full speed given that you jump before entering the effect, as you are not slowed until you land.

I would imagine that heroic leap and goblin boots will both do the same thing as disengage that i listed above.

The cliff thing is an interesting point, i would really have to go start dueling people and then jumping off cliffs to give you a definite answer but i would assume that eventually since the time in the air is great enough, that the game would eventually register you as having moved. An interesting point that i wouldnt mind testing if i wasnt so friggin busy right now.

i realize that this is simply a lot of anecdotal evidence and that you may still disagree that it happens but the fact is that people die all the time from trying to jump out of voidzones and insta-kill effects. Another problem you have is that you mentioned fire, which although you shouldnt be standing in, may simply blend with all the other damage you happen to be taking.

If this is not a good enough answer i will do some testing and give you a definite answer based on actual experience (ill go kill my hunter in stonecore).
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