Ghostcrawlers article on dungeons

90 Night Elf Hunter
7780
Personally, I'm quite put out by Ghostcrawler's article. It only demonstrates the hubris that has consumed the Wow development team. Thanks for the lesson on how games are made, dude. Now listen to us to hear how they are played.
90 Night Elf Hunter
7780
Apocalyptic
80 Orc Warrior
Run Like Hell
1840
BLIZZIDONTLIKEACHALLENGE

WHERE


Whatever, I'm not complaining about the game, dude. I'm talking about the tone of that article.
90 Human Paladin
12560
01/20/2011 6:24 PMPosted by Hammerheart
Totally agree. The tone was very, "We made the game, stfu and play it our way."

I suspect he's doubling down because his career is toast if this fails.
85 Draenei Death Knight
1450
Heroics aren't hard, what I've been noticing running non-heroics is they are TOO EASY!!

People dont' even bother learning the fights or doing the mechanics, they just charge in like Lich King dungeons and it often works for non-heroic Cata dungeons.

...then they get to Heroics and get a rude awakening. OMGWTF you mean I have to know how to play????? TOOOOOO HAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRDDDDDDDDD!!!


Make non-heroics a little harder so people actually have to learn fights and play their class, and maybe when they get to heroics they won't be wiping their groups over and over.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
6230
01/20/2011 6:32 PMPosted by Owun


Make non-heroics a little harder so people actually have to learn fights and play their class, and maybe when they get to heroics they won't be wiping their groups over and over.


This is only part of the problem. If you're like me, you enjoyed leveling so much and hated a 30- 45minute queue time, then you just didn't do many dungeons at all 80- 85. I really liked leveling in the new zones. I figured once I hit 85 I could worry about the dungeon grind again. It was quite a shock to hit 85 and see a literal handful of regular dungeons I could queue for with the random finder.

Even though they added a couple more that you can specifically queue for, that doesn't solve the problems that they don't give rep and JP sufficiently, nor do half of those regulars even drop upgrades for level 85s.
Edited by Eolas on 1/20/2011 6:40 PM PST
85 Tauren Shaman
2705
01/20/2011 6:32 PMPosted by Owun
Heroics aren't hard, what I've been noticing running non-heroics is they are TOO EASY!!



This.

The current difficulty scale is
Dungeons - Easy
Heroics - Hard
Raids - Very Hard

Where's the medium? Either make Dungeons the new medium or make Heroics the Medium. Heroics are supposed to prepare you for raids, and dungeons do NOT prepare you for Heroics. Improper scaling imo.
85 Human Priest
1910
Quite frankly, I don't like his tone.

Granted he was frustrated when he wrote that, if that was the case he should have had community managers do the posting with some sugar coating.

He wasn't responding to trolls on forums, he was making a blog addressing some concerns by playerbase. Regardless of their skill level, they are paying customers. You definitely shouldn't use lines like "If you wanna zerg the content -- stick with normal modes" in you blog posts.

Community Manager
I know you're probably frustrated by any number of issues Ghostcrawler tackled in his blog. We completely get that, which was the entire point of his post. We're not telling players it's our way or the highway. We're not burying our heads in the sand and letting you figure it out. He took a lot of his own time to try and provide some insight and positive reinforcement, admit some design mistakes we've made in Cataclysm, and let you know (most importantly) that we hear you.

We also have to recognize that there is a harsh debate within the community right now about the difficulty level. Players are flinging mud at one another and saying "learn to play", or "go grind in some other hardcore MMO". People aren't in agreement about these things and need to tone down the rhetoric (which Ghostcrawler addresses eloquently in his blog).

We're not going to join that debate, though we are players too. The best we can do right now -- as I think Ghostcrawler noted well -- is keep the dialog open and encourage constructive criticism, and even positive feedback. Hearing both what players like and don't like about select aspects of gameplay is useful to us.

The entire reason behind him writing that blog sprung from us sending him a particular thread (amongst many others we've been sending him since the launch of Cataclysm) that had him really concerned: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1660221627

He wants to see the tone of the debate changed so we can work together to make this a better game, so it's really unfortunate when you post as though he's throwing the naughty finger in your face. His post was not written from a place of hubris. Those who would take it that way probably just fundamentally disagree with the current design philosophy. But only two things are true in this case: 1) we will never please everyone with our design, and 2) we will never stop listening to our players.

In any event, I appreciate you taking the time to post. I just hope you can keep an open mind and a thoughtful dialog with us, as simply sharing with us how you perceive Ghostcrawler's attitude to be won't move game design anywhere. That's just the reality of it all.

01/20/2011 6:11 PMPosted by Aurene
Personally, I'm quite put out by Ghostcrawler's article. It only demonstrates the hubris that has consumed the Wow development team. Thanks for the lesson on how games are made, dude. Now listen to us to hear how they are played.
Edited by Zarhym on 1/21/2011 1:13 PM PST
90 Tauren Paladin
9685
I feel that they just slipped on a banana peel in general with this entire expansion.

I don't mind a small increase in challenge, but What----The......F*bleeeep*!?

Are these guys colorblind that they can only see BLACK and WHITE or something?

Okay, Lich King.... that was White.

Now, we have, Black.

Guys? You do know that GREY exists, RIGHT!?

Where's the in-between?

Whatever happened to "Let everyone see the content, give an easy mode and a hard mode"?

We have Normals.... they don't reward enough for people to want to do them. Nobody wants to do Normals. Why? IT IS POINTLESS. Most of them will not give Rep (make them ALL give rep and then we'll talk), and the items out of all but three are useless to anyone at Lv85. Those that remain, you have to do many times until you get what you need (each boss drops an item, from a pool of what, 5-10 items?) and then you have to win the roll on the item. Oh, and you get a peasly 70JP per day... that's not even worth doing.

Then we have Heroics, the "OMG!" stuff. The casuals who don't have the time to slave away at the game trying to get geared respectably for these, the casuals who don't have the connections to get guild runs for these, are strongly discouraged from running these, but yet, these Heroics are the only way they can gear up and progress their character.

Raids?

Forget it unless you can do Heroics, which many casuals can't, due to the time required until you can enter them and carry your own weight in them.

What we need:

1). Normals must reward more.

2). Make it easier for people to get "Heroic Ready". Normals rewarding more would be a start, but how about also easing the rep grind a little? Maybe giving crafters more things to craft that are 333? There's only a handful of items, and only 3 classes get 333 crafted weapons, for example. Meanwhile, PvPers get a full suit of 359s.

3). Twilight Highlands should have better quest rewards. For anyone who ran Uldum, they will step into TH and see maybe 2-3 pieces of gear from TH that are actually better than they already had, but yet the challenge found in TH is a bit of a step up from what you saw in Uldum. Why is that?

4). Tol Barad should sell more gear. Seriously, ONLY a weapon and a trinket? Is that all we get out of Tol Barad commendations? Why? TBCs should get you 333 armor at the very least. You'd still have to do dailies to get the TBCs, which allows you to put in a considerable amount of work for your Heroic-Ready status.
90 Goblin Death Knight
12990
01/20/2011 6:11 PMPosted by Aurene
Personally, I'm quite put out by Ghostcrawler's article. It only demonstrates the hubris that has consumed the Wow development team. Thanks for the lesson on how games are made, dude. Now listen to us to hear how they are played.


lmao get off your high horse. He didn't have to provide any explanation to you as to why the game is the way it is. That's never been part of Ghostcrawler's job description at all, and the fact that he regularly takes time out of his day to give some insight into how/why the game is designed is greatly appreciated by many of Blizzard's customers, myself included.

It may be a thankless job, but some people appreciate you, GC. Thanks for doing a great job.
62 Dwarf Warlock
540
01/20/2011 6:24 PMPosted by Hammerheart
I don't think anyone appreciates being told by a game developer to play the game the way they made, because too bad.


I not only appreciate being told by a game designer how they intend their game to be played, I absolutely expect it. It doesn't mean I'll actually play that way, but if I'm going to spend my time on a game, I want it to be one created with consistent, coherent design decisions rather than one that's just cobbled together out of whatever random ideas the designer though were "cool". Or even worse, one made by a designer flailing around to placate the ephemeral whims of their whiniest players.

In short, make the game you can and tell my how and why you intend it to be played. If I don't like it, I'll play something else, but I'll still respect you for adhering to your own vision.
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