Ghostcrawlers article on dungeons

85 Blood Elf Paladin
3475
01/20/2011 8:25 PMPosted by Arboreon
really?
then stop with the rollercoaster sledgehammer nerf/buff cycle that just ends up turning everyone against each other.
I've quit the game...the bad has finally outweighed the good.

It's the beginning of an expansion, people are getting more gear, and doing more damage. You quit the game because the bad (you) has stopped being "good" (passable) with the change from Wrath to Cat. It's WoW. Things are going to change. Often.
I feel like many people are just frustrated that the game they fell in love with in BC or WotLK is not there anymore. Rather than an EXPANSION, Cata turned out to be something much different. New content and gear and all is great, but I'm frustrated that Blizzard felt the need to "fix" the game so much. I mean - you have 12 million subscribers or something, so many more than the next MMO out there, that the game is really in a class all its own.

So why change it so much?

I like the fact that healers and tanks aren't the only ones responsible for your HP and threat, but I don't think people understand this. I know some dps players play as dps precisely because the game fulfills their desire to show up, suit up, and pew pew for some good times. If they wanted more responsibility, they would play a healer or tank.

And rather than stop and approach the game and their class from the perspective of being something totally new, they become frustrated that they way they've been playing for a year suddenly doesn't work at all.

After learning how it works, I really enjoy tanking and dps. I found healing, on the other hand, more enjoyable in LK. When the dps isn't doing well, it's a frustrating nightmare that can't be handled. When the dps does well, I get bored. Throwing a "big" heal for something like 4% of a player's health just doesn't make me feel like I'm doing anything.

If I had to fix the issue, I'd try to make healing more like LK, but leave the rest the same. Let the mechanics hit really hard. Let just a few seconds in the fire mean death, but then after that mechanic is finished (fail or success), let the healer quickly return the party to max health in the fight.

For me, it has something to do with the notion that if my group took a big hit in LK, I could rock some heals with a cooldown or something and get everyone capped quickly. In Cata, I feel like, no matter what, it's going to take several seconds to heal everyone up, and I'm left wondering where all my pwn went.

I like the notion that you can't just heal through someone standing in the fire, but once they solve the mechanic and get out, don't pin all the responsibility on the healer. Maybe there could be something where taking damage from mechanics that should be avoidable cause heals to be ineffective while the player is taking the hit - only as effective as they are now. And when the player gets out of the fire (as an example), only then can the healer hit them with a big heal to cap them back off.

The real sad part here is that I see many many healers abandoning healing and really enjoying dps and tanking, learning it as a new thing, but I fear that by the time people realize that healing is more on the tank and dps than ever before, there just won't be any healers left!

Thanks
GC's post is pretty much the same as everyone else... if you QQ your bad.. yea he did say pretty much they you that they changed some things to "try [and fail horribly]" to make the game a bit better but he then pretty much used it to say your bad and need to learn to play.

I can do heroics, but I just simply don't want to put up with all the bull****. Even in normals as I tank, I have to pop a heal here and there, go through CD's pretty often, and even CC.

I really don't think the problem is learn to play but more like the over all stats. Sure someone is gonna complain that you should gem, chant and reforge, but when scaling is too low that kills some gems and you can only reforge so much. Maybe if the stat conversions between 80-85 wasn't so ****'d then maybe a lot more people can do better. Pretty much Tanks have to worry about HP since avoidance is well pretty much non- existent. Like wise, healers just stack spirit.

Maybe when players actually stop telling others that their bad and actually look at the problems this game has, and what is going on then maybe we can get somewhere.
100 Human Rogue
5045
Deleted.
Edited by Anníka on 3/9/2011 10:33 AM PST
100 Night Elf Druid
5450


01/20/2011 8:17 PMPosted by Adorania
Actually, I do have one problem with the blog. I can't find it anymore. Maybe I'm missing something, but I've tried every link from worldofwarcraft.com and can't find a link anywhere to the blogs, and searching for ghostcrawler doesn't work at all.


Don't know if you are being geniune or trolling but here is the link. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2053469#blog[/quote]

Nope. Not trolling. Thanks, I appreciate the link.
100 Human Rogue
5045
Deleted.
Edited by Anníka on 3/9/2011 10:33 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
3120
I have to agree with the OP. The more I read blue posts the more I want to cancel my account. Honestly I think GC's post reaffirmed that WoW is no longer a game for friends, casuals, or average players. I realize some people have no problems with the difficulty of Heroics, and I've had a couple of good groups that knew the dungeons & while they were long they weren't extremely difficult. But if even a single person doesn't know the fights, or someone makes a single mistake it is a guaranteed wipe either due to the mistake directly or the amount of healing needed to recover from it.

As one of the previous posters said, it really seems as though blizzard only sees in black & white. WotLK dungeons were too easy, but the step up between regular & Heroics now is much higher than it needs to be. Everytime someone complains they are met with L2P & Blizzard basically saying, welcome to Cata if you don't like find something else to do. This can be seen in the answers to heroics difficulty, heroic gear requirements, several class complaint threads, and even the comments on the WoW community.

The amount of arrogance portrayed and how nonchalant blue posters are about brushing people off has really made me second guess whether, after 6 years, WoW is still something I want to play. If it wasn't for several RL friends playing the game I would have cancelled already based solely on some of the blue responses I've read lately.
Edited by Bledslightly on 1/20/2011 8:36 PM PST
90 Orc Death Knight
11265
01/20/2011 8:07 PMPosted by Karlieb
If Ghostcrawler's post had been well written, you would not be seeing these threads.

His intentions may have been good, but good intentions are not always enough.


I call BS; these forums are full of people that will take the most innocuous statement and use hyperbole and spin to turn it into something terrible.


Were you on PTR? There is elite named after GC and devs used speedhacks when played rated BG vs players. I want to be naive and belive in good things too.
85 Tauren Druid
4550
Just want to say I had no issue with Ghostcrawler's article. I found it direct and clear in terms of outlining what they wanted out of Heroics.

I don't take offense with him saying "If you want to zerg the content, stick to normals". To the people who are complaining about being casuals and unable to see the content - I think this is a fair counter.

I also haven't had any issues with the Heroics difficulty level so far - it seems that if you know what the strats for the bosses are it's achievable. The places where groups I've been in have wiped are where there's a lack of cc or somebody hasn't explained a boss thoroughly.
100 Human Paladin
13010
01/20/2011 8:32 PMPosted by Anníka
I feel like many people are just frustrated that the game they fell in love with in BC or WotLK is not there anymore. Rather than an EXPANSION, Cata turned out to be something much different. New content and gear and all is great, but I'm frustrated that Blizzard felt the need to "fix" the game so much. I mean - you have 12 million subscribers or something, so many more than the next MMO out there, that the game is really in a class all its own.

So why change it so much?


Yes, why try to fix what is not broken. You must be doing something correctly if you have TWELVE MILLION subscribers in the first place.


It WAS broken. Not for you, but for a lot of people. The difference between us people who want a challenge, and those who don't, is that we don't threaten to quit because heroics are too boring and too easy. We just deal with it and grind those frost emblems.

And they pushed the 12 million mark only after they released WoW in China, and the subscription numbers got inflated. Before that, they didn't announce any subscription numbers. 12 million mark during WotLK is not an indication that they did things perfect. It's purely from tapping into China's market.
90 Night Elf Druid
8200
01/20/2011 8:16 PMPosted by Anníka
Being causal at a game is all about the available time you have to play the game. Less time doesn't mean your less skilled/competent at the game, it means you have a life to work around to get in and enjoy the game with very little time to play it and enjoy it.

Those are usually players that play for FUN. Forgive me if I am wrong, but that's what I thought games were created for - fun.

Your post talked about difficulty of content, there was no mentioning of lack of time to do things in comparison to before which lead me to believe you are talking about players skill level and not time available to play.

Then you talk about how the game play mechanics are not new and interesting for you which makes the game boring and not fun. Well hey you no longer enjoy the game because it offers nothing new for you, hopefully the devs can find something that interests you and many other players that have the same interests as you.

At least I find the game fun, which is why I am still paying.
38 Human Warrior
0
Just want to say I had no issue with Ghostcrawler's article. I found it direct and clear in terms of outlining what they wanted out of Heroics.

I don't take offense with him saying "If you want to zerg the content, stick to normals". To the people who are complaining about being casuals and unable to see the content - I think this is a fair counter.

I also haven't had any issues with the Heroics difficulty level so far - it seems that if you know what the strats for the bosses are it's achievable.


Same here, I fully support all of the interaction the blues have had with us, no matter what "tone" it is.
85 Orc Warlock
2340
I haven't played since the end of BC and I came back for Cata, completely having skipped LK.

So to me the difficulty didn't change all that much..these heroics are much like the Sunwell terrace heroic that mentally I left off with and I've had a lot of fun in them. I got the Cata dungeon hero achievement on the 17th.

It seems to me there's a great divide between newer players and ones that have been around since vanilla.

Once you learn how to break up a pull with CC in a few ways or interrupt boss attacks it's not really that different anywhere else..how can game developers keep challenging us so players of six years don't get bored but yet keep entry level mechanics so new players can learn is the burning question. I think more work could be done to provide better raid/heroic tutorials in the form of single player quests. (The end of the twilight highlands chain is a good example of this.)

It is only right to me that the difficulty increases, or if not the "difficulty" but how creatively we must use game mechanics to get past an encounter so we are seeing something new instead of the same tank and spank.. or we are no longer playing a game but a social networking site where we buy sparkle ponies and such to upgrade our avatars just like such games as Maple Story. (Yes I bought my wife one, girls cannot be denied their sparkle pony.)

What value the mountain if it is no effort to climb it?

That said, I am less than thrilled with these new priority based DPS rotations. Some classes seem to be able to throw on a few gears and let the server do the work for them pushing one button to run 10-20k meanwhile I'm playing guitar hero and receiving 6-12 if I work my tail off.

The abilities are just lackluster overall..they come together in these weak combos that require a ton of physical effort on my part just to keep running these combos that don't do that much for my damage if I get them perfect but put it in the crapper if I don't run them. I'm doing three times the work for half the damage here on lock. I would rather put in more mental effort in gearing and selecting a decent combo in the first place and having it be slightly more automatic so I can pay more attention to the boss fights.

I don't know if this is mainly specific to lock or if other dps and heal classes have all this priority based juggling going on but it could be a large contributor to the perceived difficulty level right now. I think it should be toned down and let us have some fun back of just gearing a toon so it just kills stuff with fun big and/or rapid numbers.
85 Orc Hunter
8915
Heroics aren't hard, and once you are geared in 346s you barely need to CC anymore. Sure, we had to when we were still rocking half greens from twilight highlands, but I don't think any of them were pre-nerf shattered halls or blood furnace difficult. The problem is that people have already thrown up their hands in defeat before even making an attempt to get better.


This. A full heroic geared party can faceroll heroics without any cc, barring a very small handful of encounters. I'd hazard to say when we're at endgame in Cata, they'll be even easier than heroics at the end of WotLK. I don't know how everybody got to be such wusses around here.


I faceroll-AOE'd pre-nerf Deadmines with a tank in half greens/half non-heroic blues, with a similarly-geared healer, and at the time I had the rep epics with heroic blues. We wiped once at 30% on Ripsnarl.
Edited by Valana on 1/20/2011 8:54 PM PST
90 Blood Elf Priest
8850
01/20/2011 8:26 PMPosted by Goldbrand
Personally, I'm quite put out by Ghostcrawler's article. It only demonstrates the hubris that has consumed the Wow development team. Thanks for the lesson on how games are made, dude. Now listen to us to hear how they are played.


What hubris? I along with many others think it's great. Finally heroics are meant to be heroic, to have some challenge rather than mindless 20 min aoe fests back in WotLK.

A blue read this, so I would like to propose bringing back the heroic keys from Burning Crusade. People like the OP are not willing to get better before attempting heroics. And they then blame Ghostcrawler for their own incompetence. Will you also ask for nerfs because you can't beat any bosses in raids?

Bring back heroic keys, force them to do the normal dungeon 100 times before they unlock heroic mode. Blizzard already gave us more freedom by letting us decide when to step into heroics, but since some people abuse it, take away that freedom.


It doesn't solve any problems to make people run the normals 100 times before doing the heroic version that adds new mechanics that were not able to be practiced in the normal version.

As an example, where were the tornadoes on Altarius in normal mode? Totally different mechanic between normal and heroic.

As long as Blizzard adds new mechanics (and additional bosses) to heroics that normals do not have, attunements are pointless.
100 Human Rogue
5045

Your post talked about difficulty of content, there was no mentioning of lack of time to do things in comparison to before which lead me to believe you are talking about players skill level and not time available to play.

Then you talk about how the game play mechanics are not new and interesting for you which makes the game boring and not fun. Well hey you no longer enjoy the game because it offers nothing new for you, hopefully the devs can find something that interests you and many other players that have the same interests as you.

At least I find the game fun, which is why I am still paying.


No you read what I had to say, incorrectly. You misinterpreted it.

First of all, for the record, I PvP and PvE. So there is some interest there. Just not as much as a top end raiding guild's most elitist members interest in PvE.

I did not say "I" specifically cannot stand in fire before it gets boring... There was no mention of "I" anywhere in that posts first half.

If you read it closely you will see that what I wrote was actually:

In PvE, there is only so many ways that one cannot stand in fire and then it gets boring


I was posting in "article form" about what I understand, not just based on me but the players around me. I am not specifically talking about me, if you frequent the forums much you will notice there has been many topics covering things i have summarised in my post.
Edited by Anníka on 1/20/2011 9:02 PM PST
85 Draenei Shaman
3835
01/20/2011 7:23 PMPosted by Tallulawater
The shifting out of forms was a perk too many druids too for granted and got wayyyy too insulted when now its going bye bye.


This was the entire premise of the druid class - shapeshifting. However my complaints about druid healing have NOTHING to do with shapeshifting or TOL being turned into a CD. I am fine with those mechanics.

Do you even PLAY a healer. The healers are wildly imbalanced with Paladins being OP, Priests being pretty good, druids being good/meh and shamans being totally gimped. I play healers of every class I know what they all can do.


I shaman heal raids, we are NOT single target heals anymore we are party/raid heals now. I enjoy this as it gives my a guild more of a reason to raid with me now. I see no problem healing my groups/tanks/raids and cannot fathom why you'd use your own fail experiences to classify all Shaman healers are gimped.
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