Forcing every Holy Pally to go 3/3 Conviction

85 Blood Elf Paladin
8335
Nerfing our passive healing by 10%, increasing mana cost on all casted heals by 10% (rounded, of course - it's realistically closer to 11-12%), and then FORCING Holy Paladins to spec 3/3 Conviction.

It must be a typo. I was told 3/3 Conviction would be a buff over what we were losing. I'm not sure that a 9% increased healing stacking buff on a 15 second deactivation timer is worth losing 10% passive healing which is up ALL THE TIME. And if someone made a typo and Walk of the Light is 10%, that's still a small net gain of 4%, and in PvP it will NOT be up all the time.

You are FORCING Holy Paladins to take Conviction. Builds with Pursuit of Justice, Improved Hammer of Justice and Guardian's Favor will be dead. This is not a good change, at all. I saw the mana increases and said, okay, we can deal with that. Then you nerfed our passive healing. You didn't do anything to make our mastery worthwhile. You nerfed EVERYTHING, and made Rebuke a baseline ability like that was some sort of fix.

Not amused.
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85 Human Paladin
3440
I have PoJ and Conviction in my PvE build. It's not hard.

I don't think a slight nerf will keep any competent players from curbstomping unrated BGs, which seems to be your primary mode of play.
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Yes, Conviction (and now crit) will be staple Paladin tools. I am also not amused at the nerf to our passive healing....and the extra mana.....and the nerf to our self-healing.

IMO, with the buffs to other classes and nerfs to Paladins, Paladins will be over-nerfed and in a few months Blizz will give us our passive healing back.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8335
Started gearing up about a week ago. Thanks though.
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1 Human Priest
0
01/27/2011 9:49 AMPosted by Steveracity
Nerfing our passive healing by 10%, increasing mana cost on all casted heals by 10% (rounded, of course - it's realistically closer to 11-12%), and then FORCING Holy Paladins to spec 3/3 Conviction.

It must be a typo. I was told 3/3 Conviction would be a buff over what we were losing. I'm not sure that a 9% increased healing stacking buff on a 15 second deactivation timer is worth losing 10% passive healing which is up ALL THE TIME. And if someone made a typo and Walk of the Light is 10%, that's still a small net gain of 4%, and in PvP it will NOT be up all the time.

You are FORCING Holy Paladins to take Conviction. Builds with Pursuit of Justice, Improved Hammer of Justice and Guardian's Favor will be dead. This is not a good change, at all. I saw the mana increases and said, okay, we can deal with that. Then you nerfed our passive healing. You didn't do anything to make our mastery worthwhile. You nerfed EVERYTHING, and made Rebuke a baseline ability like that was some sort of fix.

Not amused.


Forcing us to spec conviction goes against alot of what bliz supposedly designed into the cata talent trees :

"The major focus is pruning out boring but valuable talents that passively increase say damage or healing."

"We want to create a lot more choices where you are choosing utility vs. utility"

"Yeah, a good distinction is a talent that procs on crit, is pretty much a PvP talent."

"We don't want every talent to feel mandatory since you are prohibited from getting them all. We want you to have choices. "

Hmmmmm...epic fail?


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85 Human Paladin
4255
On the point of mastery i checked my absorbs the other night after raid and was completely suprised by how much it was. I know you are talking pvp but pve is really the name of the game and everyone was taking conviction anyway.
Edited by Colforbin on 1/27/2011 2:13 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
13120
er, why would you not spec into 9% bonus healing, exactly?
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1 Human Priest
0
01/27/2011 2:13 PMPosted by Martana
er, why would you not spec into 9% bonus healing, exactly?


Because it relies too heavily on crit and the uptime is terrible, unless you buy the blizzard blather where the Conviction uptime is 100% @ 3-stacks, i.e. "The 1% Buff Myth"

Also, dont forget that the whole WitL/Conviction discussion loves to omitt that pally SELF healing got an absolute, indisputable, 5% nerf. This weighs heavily against the mythical 1% "buff" we are getting form the "nerf".
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85 Human Paladin
3440
01/27/2011 2:07 PMPosted by Banquero

Forcing us to spec conviction goes against alot of what bliz supposedly designed into the cata talent trees :

"The major focus is pruning out boring but valuable talents that passively increase say damage or healing."

"We want to create a lot more choices where you are choosing utility vs. utility"

"Yeah, a good distinction is a talent that procs on crit, is pretty much a PvP talent."

"We don't want every talent to feel mandatory since you are prohibited from getting them all. We want you to have choices. "

Hmmmmm...epic fail?


Intentionally quoting things out of context is a much bigger fail. They've said explicitly that some talents are intended to be essentially mandatory. Not everything can be spiffy utility.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5730
01/27/2011 2:34 PMPosted by Banquero
er, why would you not spec into 9% bonus healing, exactly?


Because it relies too heavily on crit and the uptime is terrible, unless you buy the blizzard blather where the Conviction uptime is 100% @ 3-stacks, i.e. "The 1% Buff Myth"

Also, dont forget that the whole WitL/Conviction discussion loves to omitt that pally SELF healing got an absolute, indisputable, 5% nerf. This weighs heavily against the mythical 1% "buff" we are getting form the "nerf".


Assuming a typo in the latest patch notes, "The 1% Buff Myth" is actually a 4% buff. If not, about 1% nerf.

Either way, in a raid setting, Conviction will have at least 90% uptime. If you're talking PvP, if you didn't get Conviction before, why would you get it now?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3475
01/27/2011 2:12 PMPosted by Colforbin
On the point of mastery i checked my absorbs the other night after raid and was completely suprised by how much it was. I know you are talking pvp but pve is really the name of the game and everyone was taking conviction anyway.


Your meter was wrong. I've had a number of times where IH was my 'Top Healing and Absorbs Done', by a lot. I don't think meters are counting them correctly. It's definitely not something I'd give up for nothing in return, but it's also not a stat I'd choose over... just about any thing else. If it's there, and I have no choice, I'll usually forge it out. 6/10 times it's wasted anyways, unless you're only tank healing.

On to the OP - I completely agree. I really, really don't think that the power of our heals was what set us apart from the other healers. Maybe they were a little stronger, I'll give 'em that. Maybe PotI was healing for too much, I'll even give them that. No one's just gonna 'QQuit' because of this, and a lot of us will continue to perform well - but I still think that the big thing that set us higher than the rest of the healers was that the only aspect of our heals that changed from Wrath to now is mana cost swapped on our primary heals, and a second resource-bar (which we were able to learn and get used to at the end of Wrath). Everyone elses healing style changed DRASTICALLY, and people are/were still getting used to it. Idk. That's just my opinion. I'm a little bugged about the changes, but hey - DP buff, right?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
9290

01/27/2011 2:48 PMPosted by Judginater
If you're talking PvP, if you didn't get Conviction before, why would you get it now?



Well, there is hardly ever a time in pvp where you'll be able to keep a 3 stack of the buff rolling because of cc and positioning, as well as the overall crit percentage pretty low atm. That's the reason pvp'ers didn't pick it up before but now since we are losing quite a bit of passive healing it will force us to take it.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
3570
Essentially in PvP, Holy Paladins are getting their staple heals mana cost increased by 10%, and their overall healing is going down about 10%, since due to CC, positioning conviction will rarely hit 3 stacks.

I think people got their wish for Holy Pally pvp nerfs. :) Makes it easier to justify the new Ret, which is much more fun to play, in my opinion, than healing.
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85 Human Paladin
2645
01/27/2011 9:49 AMPosted by Steveracity
Nerfing our passive healing by 10%, increasing mana cost on all casted heals by 10% (rounded, of course - it's realistically closer to 11-12%), and then FORCING Holy Paladins to spec 3/3 Conviction.

It must be a typo. I was told 3/3 Conviction would be a buff over what we were losing. I'm not sure that a 9% increased healing stacking buff on a 15 second deactivation timer is worth losing 10% passive healing which is up ALL THE TIME. And if someone made a typo and Walk of the Light is 10%, that's still a small net gain of 4%, and in PvP it will NOT be up all the time.

You are FORCING Holy Paladins to take Conviction. Builds with Pursuit of Justice, Improved Hammer of Justice and Guardian's Favor will be dead. This is not a good change, at all. I saw the mana increases and said, okay, we can deal with that. Then you nerfed our passive healing. You didn't do anything to make our mastery worthwhile. You nerfed EVERYTHING, and made Rebuke a baseline ability like that was some sort of fix.

Not amused.


Compared to other healers, we don't have it that bad. These nerfs are pretty justified.

Pursuit of Justice isn't really worth it as Holy anyway since it does not stack with Blessed Life. I do however, love Guardian's Favor. I have had it since Vanilla and find it very hard to let it go. That is why I have two Holy builds. One for Battlegrounds/solo with it, and one for Arenas that doesn't have it.

I don't get why you feel forced to spec into Conviction. You are healing and it helps heal. The duration does suck however, but it's a pretty good talent regardless.
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