Shadow PvP: WoD Season 3 - Warmongering

(Sticky)

100 Draenei Priest
8640
@Lustx- Do you always run FDCL, including rateds?

I ran into you the other day in randoms. It was AB.

Alliance won! Woot! You were top damage for the bg though. Even with me focusing you when we are at the same nodes. ;) lol. So funny to run into a fellow forum priest in a bg. I'm glad it happened, even if you didn't recognize me, which I don't expect you did.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
@Lustx- Do you always run FDCL, including rateds?

I ran into you the other day in randoms. It was AB.

Alliance won! Woot! You were top damage for the bg though. Even with me focusing you when we are at the same nodes. ;) lol. So funny to run into a fellow forum priest in a bg. I'm glad it happened, even if you didn't recognize me, which I don't expect you did.


I use FDCL in every situation unless the map is either:

Twin Peaks (rateds only)
WSG (rateds only)

Because simply put with the 38% mastery I get off mastery buff leads FDCL to come back up every 1-3 seconds. So All I really need to do is focus on dot management.. When a melee focuses me: I'll have two FDCL's up, and usually a mind blast. Pop offensive trinket OR vampiric embrace (or fear to get away) dot them, pop everything into them.. Usually they roll over dead; or drop to 20% and run away because of it.

I would use insanity; if the 5 second Psychic horror wasn't leading me into more killing blows than insanity was landing.. It just seems more logical for me to CC a healer with a blanket silence; then psychic horror the other healer, and while my teams focusing the other DPS either over-extend onto the healers and fear-bomb for an additional 8second CC or see if one healer is good enough to heal a target being hit by 175K+ incoming damage per second.

& Yeah, I remember seeing you in an Arathi Basin.. Didn't you notice me /wave to you in the few seconds the warrior on me, died, then I got owned by 4 DPS just swapping onto me.. couldn't LoS fast enough. But hey; that's what happens when you're a shadow priest going to LM when your healer is running around on mines.

FDCL isn't that great if you don't have the 22K base Spell Power though.. When this toon was only 19K or so Spell Power it seemed like it was just hitting people for a wet noodle... Used recount to see exactly how much damage my FDCL can do..

Damage Done:
Mind Blast > SW:P > VT > FDCL > Devouring Plague (initial) > Devouring Plague (dot) > SW:D
Within a 8 minute game of WSG I managed to use 32 FDCL (mind spike)'s on people for about 1478562 damage. Which averaged into about 48K damage each.. Yet it was critting for anywhere between 100-150K.

Mastery-Speced Mind Spike FTW

But FDCL's damage varies..

My insanity will tick on a person for 100% of Mind Flay (15-30K when casted) which makes it about 30-60K crits. What I don't like about that is usually the target will either die, I will get dispelled, DP will be dispelled, I will be CC'd in some other way, or 3-4 of my other dots will fall off of my other targets leading to DPS/Proc loss.

It's a playstyle... I would reccomend insanity if you don't want to rely as much on RNG as I like to.. But RNG makes the game more fun to me.

I usually have 4-6 Vampiric Touches running at any given time

15% chance for VT to proc Mind Spike per damage tick per target.

Mastery: 28%(38% buffed) chance for your dots to tick twice.

38% chance for VT to tick twice
Double the Damage
Double chance for Mind Spike to proc

Literally when you have like 7 targets vampiric touched you could just start spamming mind spike cool-downs if you're lucky enough and get back to back non-stop 50-150K crits (more towards the 50-85K mark on 68%+ resil targets)

With the buff PvP power is getting in 5.3.. Oh god.. Resilience won't mean much against power stacking..
Edited by Lustx on 4/22/2013 10:34 PM PDT
Reply Quote
100 Draenei Priest
8640
I think I do remember you waving! Woot!

I prefer the christmas tree light spec like you do. Think I'm going to switch back to it.

Also, I'm going to get that trinket you have! It looks awesome! Glad I only have to make it to friendly, should be fairly easy.

I used your method last season. I tried switching it up this season and I don't like the playstyle of insanity. I'm going back to mastery-spec fdcl. You have convinced me. Give me the christmas tree lights! Shinies=Good!

Edit: Also, it seems gutsy to use 3 orbs on psychic horror and yet it makes so much sense. My team has so much trouble ccing healers. I'm going to give it a whirl. I've been trying to figure out how to help cc from a distance. I like that it lasts 5 seconds. It should help us score a few more kills.
Edited by Zadok on 4/23/2013 9:01 AM PDT
Reply Quote
Zadok I didn't foget about you. I'm in my "Finals Mode" for this semester and any free time is either in PvP/RBGs or with the family.

Also I'm trying a "High Res" gem/ench build tonight. We'll see how it goes although it will most likely be futile (if it works) come 5.3.

There's talk amongst the oQueue groups of using PvE 522 (scaled down of course) socketed with pure PvP Power. Plus Demo Locks being the new FC'ers in TP/WSG.

It is probably too early to say this but PvE'ers may once again have the advantage soon.
Edited by Merrik on 4/25/2013 7:32 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
Zadok I didn't foget about you. I'm in my "Finals Mode" for this semester and any free time is either in PvP/RBGs or with the family.

Also I'm trying a "High Res" gem/ench build tonight. We'll see how it goes although it will most likely be futile (if it works) come 5.3.

There's talk amongst the oQueue groups of using PvE 522 (scaled down of course) socketed with pure PvP Power. Plus Demo Locks being the new FC'ers in TP/WSG.

It is probably too early to say this but PvE'ers may once again have the advantage soon.


Even if PvErs stacked pure PvP power; I highly doubt they could reach the 16800 PvP power attainable that we can currently in 13/16 tyrannical. (I'm 15376PvP power + a 1450 PvP power trinket in bags)

If PvP power truly becomes king, since they're also buffing spriests off-heals to resemble 70% of our PvP power..

One small thing though:

the 522iLv shadow-pan trinket turns instand mind-spikes into a 45-50k (no-crit) on 68% resilience targets.. (usually 200ks in PvP)

The 491 double upgraded mal trinket makes instant mind-spikes into a 41500-47500 (not even talking about using it, as once you pop the trinket you start hitting 50-60ks)

Once the item levels are scaled down, if the PvE trinket makes more than a 10% loss on damage it will become futile to even use. It's main use currently is the fact that it will randomly proc a blood-lust for 10s on yourself.
Reply Quote
Zadok I didn't foget about you. I'm in my "Finals Mode" for this semester and any free time is either in PvP/RBGs or with the family.

Also I'm trying a "High Res" gem/ench build tonight. We'll see how it goes although it will most likely be futile (if it works) come 5.3.

There's talk amongst the oQueue groups of using PvE 522 (scaled down of course) socketed with pure PvP Power. Plus Demo Locks being the new FC'ers in TP/WSG.

It is probably too early to say this but PvE'ers may once again have the advantage soon.


Even if PvErs stacked pure PvP power; I highly doubt they could reach the 16800 PvP power attainable that we can currently in 13/16 tyrannical. (I'm 15376PvP power + a 1450 PvP power trinket in bags)

If PvP power truly becomes king, since they're also buffing spriests off-heals to resemble 70% of our PvP power..

One small thing though:

the 522iLv shadow-pan trinket turns instand mind-spikes into a 45-50k (no-crit) on 68% resilience targets.. (usually 200ks in PvP)

The 491 double upgraded mal trinket makes instant mind-spikes into a 41500-47500 (not even talking about using it, as once you pop the trinket you start hitting 50-60ks)

Once the item levels are scaled down, if the PvE trinket makes more than a 10% loss on damage it will become futile to even use. It's main use currently is the fact that it will randomly proc a blood-lust for 10s on yourself.


(Concerning PvP Power) Except PvP Power is useless without Intellect, the same applies reversely. Any number times 0 = 0. And the gains from PvP Power are higher when the x-factor is larger. When Int vs Power is graphed for total damage output, the point where they cross is where you need to set your Int and Power totals at. This solution set will change slightly with upgrades of course.

I would like to do the algebra to see a full S13 Tyr set vs the current BiS PvE gear socketed for PvP Power (scaled down to 496). I'd like to think PvP Gear will remain #1, however it wouldn't surprise me if PvE gear was slightly better. I don't want to make assumptions yet though.

On a different note, after testing a full Resilience set (without breaking socket bonus), I didn't enjoy it. I'm rarely focused down as it stands due to great team support, so I'd rather have my damage higher for 3xOrb/Trinket/PI/MFI output.

Mathematically Resilience does hold more value (~2:1), but it depends on the situation. No point in massive resilience if you are never focused. I suppose the same applies to "no point in massive damage output if you're dead". So it really comes down to the situation and team build as a final deciding factor.

Not saying it is wrong, it just isn't for me.

I'll be on PublicVent tonight doing something. Feel free to swing by everyone.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
@Merrik, if you want I could show you my PvE dot ticks / whatever in full PvP gear (13/16tyranical right now, going to be 14 this weekend when I cap)

But you also need to realize that in 5.3 the 535 PvE gear will be rescaled down to 496 iLv to compensate.

For example: The 546 Thunderforged Wand gives 5K more spell power vs a 3000PvP power loss. (about 6%.)

But considering that would boost damage from 25,000 -> 29000 it's a 16% damage upgrade vs tyrannical.

The PvE gear will be scaled down a few tiers.. Ie if a trinket gives a static 1500 intellect, it sohuld only give about 1000-1200 in bgs, rbgs, and arena next patch.
Reply Quote
1 Human Rogue
0
What worked better for you Lustx, stacking pvp power or stacking resilience?
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
What worked better for you Lustx, stacking pvp power or stacking resilience?


Arena - Need my 10600 resilience. No doubt.

RBGS - I can hide in the back and spec guise out of trouble, resilience has little to no value there. so my 17000 PvP power / 15600 (+1600int PvE trinket) wins.

By the way Merrik:

For Reforging it could be more useful for people to use "Reforgelite"

It's an add-on available on curse that will optimize your armor however you want it in its stat priority.

Hit > haste > (crit or mastery) > (secondary)

It usually reforges perfectly to 6.01% hit on most gear.
Edited by Lustx on 4/28/2013 10:41 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
@ Merrik:

I found out which tyrannical items give your characters the best stat priority for RBGS.

End-Game I'm currently at these stats:

Spell Power = 20528
Haste = 16.83%
Hit = +6.12%
Crit = 8.15%
Mastery = 28.55%

Baseline double hit rings gives us a baseline of +175 more haste, although we lose crit, which is our lowest stat priority for RBGS anyway

Necklace: Alacrity gives us +100 more haste.
Ring: Meditation & Accuracy (accuracy gives us more haste yield than cruelty)
Cloak: Drape of Prowess (more haste, +450 more mastery)
Boots: Alacrity (but your current enchant is wrong, greater haste gives us +165 more haste over pandaren giving us mastery.)

NOTE: Forgot to grab the Alacrity boots..
Reply Quote
@Merrik, if you want I could show you my PvE dot ticks / whatever in full PvP gear (13/16tyranical right now, going to be 14 this weekend when I cap)

But you also need to realize that in 5.3 the 535 PvE gear will be rescaled down to 496 iLv to compensate.

For example: The 546 Thunderforged Wand gives 5K more spell power vs a 3000PvP power loss. (about 6%.)

But considering that would boost damage from 25,000 -> 29000 it's a 16% damage upgrade vs tyrannical.

The PvE gear will be scaled down a few tiers.. Ie if a trinket gives a static 1500 intellect, it sohuld only give about 1000-1200 in bgs, rbgs, and arena next patch.


For any specific items, nothing beyond iL496 is really applicable post 5.3. The example of a PvE iL546 Weapon versus any current PvP Weapon is a no brainer.

Using your trinket example (which you didn't give the top end item-level for so I'll assume it is heroic), if we look at the Heroic 2/2 iLv543 Upgraded Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen it gives +1785 Intellect. Compare it to the RaidFinder 0/2 iLv 502 Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen at +1218 Intellect. The difference is a +567 Intellect from 41 item-levels equaling ~13.83 Intellect per item-level. Using these numbers it is safe to say that same heroic iL543 trinket with +1785 Intellect would scale down to an iL496 at +1135 Intellect. Now personally (unless I was a human for their racial) I would rather have the on demand Spell Power and passive PvP Power/Resilience from Tyrannical Gladiator's Badge of Dominance than a scaled down iL496 Trinket in a majority of situations. The x-factor being the secondary effect of a theoretical trinket.

This guide is meant to discuss items within the grasp of even the most passive of casuals. Only a small part of the WoW community has regular access to the aforementioned high-end itemization.

04/26/2013 08:58 AMPosted by Lustx
But you also need to realize that in 5.3 the 535 PvE gear will be rescaled down to 496 iLv to compensate.


04/25/2013 07:32 AMPosted by Merrik
There's talk amongst the oQueue groups of using PvE 522 (scaled down of course) socketed with pure PvP Power.


I do realize this, I stated it earlier as noted above.
Edited by Merrik on 5/9/2013 6:33 AM PDT
Reply Quote
@ Merrik:

I found out which tyrannical items give your characters the best stat priority for RBGS.

End-Game I'm currently at these stats:

Spell Power = 20528
Haste = 16.83%
Hit = +6.12%
Crit = 8.15%
Mastery = 28.55%

Baseline double hit rings gives us a baseline of +175 more haste, although we lose crit, which is our lowest stat priority for RBGS anyway

Necklace: Alacrity gives us +100 more haste.
Ring: Meditation & Accuracy (accuracy gives us more haste yield than cruelty)
Cloak: Drape of Prowess (more haste, +450 more mastery)
Boots: Alacrity (but your current enchant is wrong, greater haste gives us +165 more haste over pandaren giving us mastery.)

NOTE: Forgot to grab the Alacrity boots..


Actually I've gotten the stats even tighter. I'm very certain they cannot be done any better than this. The slight differences between anyone would be Tradeskills and Racials. The Tradeskills are mostly +Intellect whereas Racials may be +Haste/Crit. Even so, the scores are much closer together.

Unbuffed including no Inner Fire/Will & Fortitude
Spell Power = 20,664
Spell Hit = 6.02%
Spell Haste = 18.65%
Spell Crit = 6.19%
Mastery = 28.87%

PvP Res = 65.68% (Pre-5.3)
PvP Power = 60.14% (Pre-5.3)

Link to Reforging Image: http://i.imgur.com/gQ1bzcZ.jpg
Edited by Merrik on 5/9/2013 7:36 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
Oh I see what you did there; You're using "Emblem of Tenacity" reforged into haste.

That bumps my haste up to 18.66%

New stats using emblem with Alacrity (Haste+Mastery favoring Gear):
18.66% haste (7932)
6.03% Hit (2049)
8.67% Crit (1283)
28.73% Mastery (4777)
59.41% PvP Power (15743)

Bear in mind:

My end-game Spell Power is 25083 'buffed' if I ever get bored and get the +180int bracers.

I could go more offensive by simply losing more resilience, dropping 0.6% PvP power and getting my last haste breakpoint (would give an extra tick for SW:P.)

NOTE: You're using the LMG plus +640 profession bonuses. (blacksmithing opt-out to get our +640 PvP power instead of +320 Int)

The armor listed here was for the old stat priority.
Hit>Res>Power>Haste>Crit>Mastery
It makes no sense to get Crit+Haste gear when you're just reforging out of crit -> Mastery.

EDIT:

Note, I'm also getting the Arena stat priority BIS for shadow soon.
(its the old stat priority, haste yields more for insanity burst)
Edited by Lustx on 5/9/2013 10:04 AM PDT
Reply Quote
1 Human Rogue
0
Lustx, have you played spriest on the patch yet? I been wondering how their doing.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Priest
9845
Lustx, have you played spriest on the patch yet? I been wondering how their doing.


I've written a bit on spriests in the PTR version..

This is what is changing with our gear in bulk.

For example: PvP power and PvP resilience are NO longer viable stats for PvP. Intellect is A LOT stronger. (even stronger than the PvP power vs Intellect disparity right now)

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/8796550001

The +1s on Mass dispel (still need to glyph it) just makes it harder to get off in arena's, it's FINE in bgs/rbgs.
Edited by Lustx on 5/9/2013 5:37 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Human Priest
2805
Will there be a 5.3 update?

Still res enchant on chest?
Reply Quote
Yeah, there will be a 5.3 update. I meant to do it yesterday but my family had an impromptu barbecue. I'll be working on it today and changing it to S13 Tyrannical Gear.

I was able to calculate how to reach 6.00% Hit on the dot. It was a good weekend.

Thanks!
Reply Quote
And as promised I updated this guide to be 5.3 compatible. I still have a few tweeks to work out.

The big changes were making everything Tyrannical and 5.3 Res/Power modifications.

Have a great day!
Reply Quote
90 Goblin Priest
9490
You prioritize Mastery over Crit, may I ask why?
Reply Quote
91643416772:
You prioritize Mastery over Crit, may I ask why?


This guide isn't for any one type of PvP situation, if anything it leads towards regular Battlegrounds. For that reasoning Mastery is stronger than Critical as we aren't easily tunneled with minimal support, able to multi-DoT and utilize FDCL/DI procs. And those procs do work off of the extra Mastery DoT tiks.

If I had two sets, I'd have a Crit set for Arenas. But I don't do Arenas as Shadow so I guess it's a moot point.

In most BGs I fall within 80% of our Warlock and DeathKnight in total damage. And those two do insane numbers. I'll provide some screenshots when I run tongiht if it helps. And I'll keep my LiveStream up too. I should be back on by 6pm EST.

Twitch TV: merrikargentdawn
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]