(10m) 4 Healers - Disadvantage?

85 Worgen Death Knight
5455
Hello all,

Glad this new forum is up. I hope the trolls stay out of it. Doubt it.

Anyway, I raid (casually) with two different groups - one raids Sun/Mon and one raids Thurs/Fri. In both groups, we found that healing with 4 healers is much easier, and that's what we've been doing with Magmaw and Omno Def Sys. The S/M grp got through killing Halfus with this setup, the Th/Fr group hasn't attempted him yet (just downed ODS yesterday).

My question is are we handicapping ourselves by using 4 healers on these early "easier" fights, or is it ok to use 4 heals while epics come flying in? What are your throughts, as leaders, and experiences?

For clarity (and options):

Sun/Mon Grp Healers:
Holy Pally - no viable OS
Resto Shaman - Ele OS
Holy Priest - Shadow OS
Disc Priest - Holy OS

Th/Fr Grp Healers:
Holy Pally - no viable OS
Resto Druid - Boomkin OS
Resto Druid - Bear OS
Holy Priest - Disc OS
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85 Worgen Druid
4935
Honestly? Yes. Upcoming fights will have Enrage timers, and 4 healing it will just not work.

I'd have your holy priest go Shadow full time in your S/M group, and your resto druid go Boomkin in your Th/Fr group. They'll need to learn to love it. That or you should drop them, and I wouldn't want that.

Your other 3 healers will have to learn to be more stingy with their mana, and the rest of the raid will have to be sure to help by avoiding as much avoidable damage as possible. A little research and preparation will go a LONG way in most of the fights.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
I agree with Dagglet. Our group even drops to 2 healers on a few fights. I couldn't imagine only having 4 dps for most of the current fights. There are some REALLY tight enrage timers on 10 man right now and I'm not sure it's mathematically possible with only 4 dps, in the gear available to you to right now.

Healing right now seems centered around countering unavoidable dmg instead of healing through bad play. Healers can't endless save players standing in fire anymore.
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90 Tauren Druid
15450
Sun/Mon Group: I'd have either the Disc priest go shadow. OR the resto shaman go ele. I've found lately that resto shaman healing just isn't quite up to par. I'd even go so far as to save have the other priest go holy to provide good raid heals (and to pick up evangalism if he hasn't).

Th/Fri Group: not much choice there lol.. depending on what you have tanking it MIGHT be better to have the druid go bear... but i'd say have you're other resto go boomkin. Can never have toomany ranged. Good luck out there!!
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90 Troll Warlock
0
Valiona has nearly a 10min enrage timer, it really only takes half that with 5 dps. so on that fight the answer is no. Maloriak, yes, 6min enrage timer. Chimaeron.. I've seen it solo tanked, if you wanted to attempt that in order to use four healers, then no, but if you choose to use 2 tanks like most, yes very crippled. Yes on Council, Yes on cho'gall, Yes on Atramedes, Yes on Al'akir, Yes on nefarian.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4435
4 healers? I hate to sound like an ahole but 4 healers? If 3 healers can't handle normal modes why even bother...
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90 Undead Warlock
10320
4 Healers is very excessive. We have to 2 heal Shadow Council because our raid is so melee heavy.

In fact, there's very little good reason to 4 heal anything. I'd hate to say it but your healers need to learn to play properly. There are many fights with huge lulls in healing, making each additional healer over 2 excessive for that time. The two "main only" healers in my guild like having the third one around for a buffer, even on the easier fights that we could easily 2 heal. Plus he's resto and they love his tide.

The only fights I can think of with forgiving enrage (soft or otherwise) would be Omnitron, Magmaw, and Valiona/Theralion. The latter of which you'll never get to with 4 dps on Halfus.

Also on certain fights, your raid might be taking more damage than they should be if you need 4 healers, or maybe your tanks are stuck in the wrath mindset and are only stacking stamina. Regardless, that sort of healing attitude will block you from making any real progression.
Edited by Metharian on 1/29/2011 2:04 PM PST
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
12710
Magmaw and such might seem "easier" with 4 healers, but be aware of what you're really doing: teaching your healers (and the rest of the raid) lazy playing techniques. There's no getting around the fact that healing in Cata is harder than in Wrath. Adding another healer to the mix won't soften the blow of that lesson. They have to learn it eventually, so it might as well be now.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Fights on normal mode are almost all 2 healable, with the notable exceptions of nefarian, chimeron, and the throne of winds bosses, however both 2 healing and 4 healing can put you at a disadvantage when you come up to heroic modes. The heroic modes are much more closely tuned to require players in the raid to be performing very well with full gear, and it becomes more difficult to sacrifice dps or healing on fights due to steeper requirements of both. I would suggest getting used to 3 healing most fights, as it is easily doable even with poorly equipped healers. Doing more or less essentially lets one group of players (either your dps or your healers) get used to being lazy, and will probably see them improving less than they otherwise should be.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
6850
Your solution is - make it a single 25 raid group...
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90 Night Elf Druid
11285
Four healers just seems a bit excessive and unnecessary. I would consider sticking with 3 as the mechanics usually demand for 3, and leave it at that. With 4 healers, you are just screaming for anything with a short enrage timer to beat the tar out of you.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
9830
You'll need 4 healers for heroic modes. Be glad that you are blessed with multiple healers, and figure out who's most interested in respeccing DPS.
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90 Human Paladin
12525
4-healing is putting you at a slight disadvantage. Having 3 healers, or even 2 in some cases, gives tanks a chance to learn how to utilize their cooldowns more effectively, which is now more important in a raiding environment.
Some fights are even 2-healable, or are much easier with 2 healers due to enrage timers- like Maloriak. Final phase during Maloriak is better when it is shorter, and doing that effectively would be to have 2 healers.
Sure, down the road it may be helpful to have 4 healers in heroic modes- but you won't be able to get even close to that without first killing bosses which require 2-3 healers and far more dps than you are able to put out with 4 healers.
My suggestion is to start tuning and preparing your raiders to raid with 2-3 healers for the time being, but keep a wary mind that down the road you may once again need 4. At least it seems your raiders are flexible with specs.
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The only fight in which I have seen 4 healing to be plausible is heroic Halfus and that is only with 2 disc priest spamming atonement.. They still put out 11k dps which healing for 17k hps.. and for that one single fight 4 healing is about as amazing as it will ever get. My suggestions honestly is just go 3 heals for all fights except maybe Atramedas and Maloriak which are easily 2 healed.
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85 Human Warlock
3425
Whatever works, just have people ready to adjust when necessary.
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85 Worgen Death Knight
5455
I appreciate all the feedback and suggestions! That's what I thought too, but I wanted to make sure I was right before I bring it up to the raid leaders/healers.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
18215
Either your healers aren't healing correctly or your raid is taking too much damage. Should have no problems healing with 3 healers.
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