Looking for Dungeon Queues...

85 Night Elf Druid
8485
I tank for my guildies. I do not queue up solo as tank in LFD like I used to in WotLK. There is much more potential for fail pugs in cata than there were 1 year into WotLK when LFD was introduced. Therefore I will wait until I get a full guild group to do my daily random.

If I were you I would do one of the following: (a) Learn to tank, (b) Learn to heal, (c) Get a guild group or (d) Find a new guild if you can't get groups in your current guild, or (e) do some daily quests or farm while you wait
85 Night Elf Druid
5320
I have an idea that'd certainly work but I'm not personally a fan of it. Blizzard could reward bonus justice/ valor for those who tank and heal. Increase the rewards for tanking and healing and more people will do it.

The only issue i see here is It gimps pure dps who have no other choice but I'm sure if it lowers ques times they won't complain.

90 Night Elf Druid
4575
In 45 minutes someone can put together their own group of people that can fail a Heroic Dungeon. Thus LFD is no longer a useful tool.

Now if a healer ques or a tank ques they get an almost instant que. I know this because Im a healer and if I want to run something it's just a hop, skip, and a jump to get there.

Why should healers and tanks have this incredibly useful tool at their disposal but make it meaningless for dps? It is not balanced.

What Vandalar is suggesting isn't any modification to LFD at all. He is simply suggesting what many others before him have sugguested which is making the LFD tool more desireable to use. Nobody wants to que because pug groups will fail these instances. Technically, he is suggesting nerfing Heroics which is all Blizzard can honestly do to fix the que times.

I find it very doubtful atm that this will happen. If you are really having a problem with que times just PvP. You can spend all the time you want on these forums but if Blizzard does anything its still gonna take them a while to fix anything because development is a long process.
02/03/2011 10:26 AMPosted by Menolie
Here is the perfect solution - remove the Dungeon Finder.

After 5 1/2 years, Blizzard provided a fantastic tool - AN OPTIONAL TOOL - to make completing your daily heroic much easier. And you folks have the audacity to complain and act like petulant children because you have to wait your turn in line?

There is NOTHING that Blizzard can do to balance the ratios. All of you " in my business, we....". Please, for one second try to use plain 'ol COMMON SENSE. You make analogies that have nothing to do with reality.

There are plenty of reasons that there are not as many tanks in the Dungeon Finder as there were when LK ended. The main one is the vitriolic nature of the DPS that use the Dungeon Finder.

Sorry, but on my warrior tank, there is nothing that Blizzard could do to encourage me to run more heroics. It is YOU, the player base, that stops me from running more.

And all this talk of "well, there are all kinds of things Blizzard could do"..... yet you make no mention of these things. It is just you assuming you know what you are talking about while actually speaking out of the side of your neck.

So, to the DPS whining about queue times - suck it up. Or go start your own group off of your own realm. Other than that - STIFLE IT EDITH!
Well said. 2 thumbs up.
I have an idea that'd certainly work but I'm not personally a fan of it. Blizzard could reward bonus justice/ valor for those who tank and heal. Increase the rewards for tanking and healing and more people will do it.

The only issue i see here is It gimps pure dps who have no other choice but I'm sure if it lowers ques times they won't complain.

There is one equally unbalancing bad idea that they can do pretty easily, the same solution they gave us for The Oculus give people who tank bigger rewards. I say gave them 140VP or something like that. That way people have a reason other than faster queue times to tick that check that says Tank.

And it will lead to the same result - once I get my reward, or cap my reward, I stop queuing again...except now I'm even further ahead of the curve than DPS players are.
Edited by Wojtek on 2/3/2011 10:34 AM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8535
02/03/2011 10:29 AMPosted by Hurtmenomore
Fail more OP.


My you people are ignorant, which is exactly why I don't queue using LFD. I don't want to play with you as you feel like every clever insult that pops out of your head is too important not to share with the world.

Blizzard created the circumstances that made a shortage of tanks. To everyone stating that Blizzard isn't at fault is wrong. That's not to say that the players aren't at fault - they are too, but they're simply reacting to the situation created for us by Blizzard.
02/03/2011 10:31 AMPosted by Orichalum
There is one equally unbalancing bad idea that they can do pretty easily, the same solution they gave us for The Oculus give people who tank bigger rewards. I say gave them 140VP or something like that. That way people have a reason other than faster queue times to tick that check that says Tank.


Except that doesn't actually address the problem:
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016793071?page=9#164
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2016793071?page=9#175

You're suggesting that the solution to a 5 year old repeatedly playing with knives is to deck their babysitter out in kevlar, rather than teaching the kid to not play with knives.
Blizzard created the circumstances that made a shortage of tanks. To everyone stating that Blizzard isn't at fault is wrong. That's not to say that the players aren't at fault - they are too, but they're simply reacting to the situation created for us by Blizzard.

This is true. The problem of acting horribly without consequence in dungeons was created when Blizzard added the LFD tool.

I'm all for removing it.
85 Draenei Death Knight
2975
Why didn't Blizz factor this in when designing cata? They already knew that dps outnumbered tanks and heals, yet they did NOTHING to alieviate queue times.



Maybe, but maybe not.

It is also possible that they implemented changes that did not work as intended. You assume that any problem is fixable and should be fixed immediately and if its not fixed immediately Blizz is ignoring the issue and has 0 development on it.

such a retarded stance.
You have no clue what they did or did not do, what they are or are not doing.

They know about the issue, now sit down kid and be quiet.
85 Human Paladin
5085
take your number and wait for your cue. no one gets special treatment because they feel like they should.

the solution to 40 minute cues is called a guild


The wider solution to 40 minute queues is:
A) developing a community that encourages tanks and healers to pug, rather than punishing them any time they queue without at least 2-3 DPS they know, and
B) developing a community in which more people are willing and able to pay a reasonable amount of attention, rather than the absolute minimum required (casting CC once per 30 sec, moving out of the obvious fire, and hitting a couple buttons to see big numbers).

Edit: "Queues," of course. Serves me right for taking my cue from the post I quoted..


XD it doesn't help i English isnt my first language.

and i couldnt agree more with you post. i pug heroics because i find the challenge fun every now and again, but lately...lately ive gotten nothing but lazy dps not willing to watch where they stand or understand the fights enough to interrupt a spell cast or move out of a whirlwind.

it also doesnt help that people seem to want to play wow when they are doing other activities. i dont care about your pizza in the oven that makes you go afk every 5 minutes or the fact you have your brother over and he is distracting you. go away and come back when you actually have time to sit and PAY ATTENTION to the game and stop wasting everyones time
Edited by Towelen on 2/3/2011 10:40 AM PST
02/03/2011 10:33 AMPosted by Vandalar
I only name call those who are calling me an idiot. Tit for tat/eye for an eye?


Yep. I've got no problem with you calling me an idiot and backing it up. However, what you did was call me an idiot, then claim I made statements which were flat out contradicted by my post.
86 Human Paladin
4640
02/03/2011 10:30 AMPosted by Hesperus
Oh no Bennett, my comprehension is just fine. I got the idea you were going for.

I just think making this game at all easier for dps to get into dungeons via a "Class Suit" or vehicle is...dumb.


maybe you could elaborate on why it's dumb to speed up Q's for DPS? How does them being able to control a tankbot or healbot affect you? How does it make anything easier for them outside of actually being able to get into a heroic in a fail amount of time. It doesn't have to be insta-Q if they select it, i'm fine making them wait for 10 mins to see if a "real" tank comes along.

I don't care that you don't like my idea, i'm an open minded guy, but some explanation other than "its dumb to help dps get in Q's faster" doesn't really cut it.
90 Human Warlock
0
Class distribution is the main cause of the LFD issue. Paladins and Druids account for 50% of the tank specs and 40% of the healing specs. It's doubtless that if Rogues/Warlocks could help tank dungeons or if Hunters/Mages could help heal, they would rise to the challenge.

Building a tanking option into Combat or Demonology isn't really out of the question but a healing hunter or healing mage would probably be much more tricky..

At the root of this is PvP balance. Class design that can effectively hybridize makes PvP impossible to balance as there are certain thresholds of gear where being 50% healer and 50% dps is much more powerful than 10/90 or 90/10.

Possible quick fixes ...

- Combat Rogue/Demo warlock tanking lines in their trees, mostly for threat generation and chance to be crit reduction.

- More widespread self maintenance, especially from the pure DPS classes - Mages need more powerful absorption options, Hunters need a reliable self heal altogether.

- Finally accepting that a functional PvE environment is fundamentally at odds with PvP balance ie rule exceptions, focused pvp specs, etc.
Edited by Zaelen on 2/3/2011 10:38 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
OOB
13855
Here's some suggestions

2) Adjust the LFD tool to penalize for PvP gear, no enchants, no gems, etc. And ignore unequippable or 'wrong' gear.



Uhh, but my mage in PvP 4 piece does more damage in 5 mans then in PvE gear. Intellect is the most important stat and there is more on PvP gear, and 5 mans don't have the high spell hit requirement. So PvP gear is completely viable for some classes.
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