Looking for Dungeon Queues...

62 Tauren Shaman
680
All of this talk about increasing group sizes...
40mans were ruled out for a reason. Just saying.
Bigger isn't always better in a group situation.
Let's say they did do the 6-7 man group size I've seen a lot. That's 4-5 dps per group. Now, knowing that DPS wait times have been decreased, I'm more likely to hop off of my tank and on to my DPS toon knowing that lines are shorter.
That decreases the tank line by one, and increases the dps line by one.
That's just one small example of ways it could fail.
If it aint broke, dont fix it.


I honestly don't know if increasing the size would be good or not. Chances are Blizzard has the numbers to do a pretty good analysis on that. As far as hopping on your DPS goes, I think that is fine. Actually I think it is a pretty sad state of affairs when you have to partake in an activity you don't enjoy just to avoid long queue times. Ideally if Blizzard was truly successful in their implementation of tanking/healing the only people filling those roles would be the people that enjoy doing so. The fact that Blizzard has to provide extra bonuses just to get people to fill those roles or doing things like breaking all plate non tank specs for some classes to try and force players into roles they don't enjoy shows how much they have failed at their implementation of tanking/healing.
62 Tauren Shaman
680
And you can't really say that the idea of adding a tanking class exacerbates the problem after thinking about it for a matter of minutes. I'm not saying this is a viable solution, but it merits more than a knee-jerk dismissal. This is a forum for discussion. We should be open minded and be willing to think outside the box.


I think if they added a tank class that actually was fun to tank on, then it would definitely help. The question there is if they could make tanking fun for more people why not do that to all current tanking specs instead of adding a new one? Lack of tanking classes isn't really the issue. Tanking/healing not being fun for the majority of the people is. If that could be addressed via a new class or changes to current classes, or completely changing entire mechanics, I would be all for it.

Dungeons have been 5 man since vanilla.

Do you remember vanilla? When you might go a whole day without finding a group if you didn't have a guild? Face it, finding a dungeon group is better now than it has ever been.
Did you read my next post? Has some suggestions to make it more appealing to tanks.. That's the only way this is going to be fixed..
62 Tauren Shaman
680
02/05/2011 7:26 AMPosted by Skoalbasher
Did you read my next post? Has some suggestions to make it more appealing to tanks.. That's the only way this is going to be fixed..


Don't know if that was to me or not, but I read it. I don't know if I agree with the specific change. I think tanking/healing needs to be more fun. More incentive is a quick fix, but doesn't fix the underlying problem.(that it isn't fun for enough people) Don't get me wrong sometimes a quick fix is just what is needed for the short term. And hell yes LFD is a huge improvement over vanilla.
02/03/2011 9:19 AMPosted by Vandalar
In fact, I make it a point to try and tank at least 1 reg a night just to help the queues.


Well there's where you fail. You're not helping the cause. DPS queues for regs are only about 15 minutes. Why don't you tank a heroic instead? That's how you'll help the queues.

You WHOLE thread has just become pointless. QQ
Don't know if that was to me or not, but I read it. I don't know if I agree with the specific change. I think tanking/healing needs to be more fun. More incentive is a quick fix, but doesn't fix the underlying problem.(that it isn't fun for enough people) Don't get me wrong sometimes a quick fix is just what is needed for the short term. And hell yes LFD is a huge improvement over vanilla.


Yeah it is a quick fix. At the moment I haven't seen any other ideas that are worth looking at IMO. I have a druid tank, kinda fun. But until you require a DPS, standing in fire rule tanking will never be more fun.

I have a great time healing on my shaman, with my guildies that is.. Tanking won't be more fun until people stop standing in the fire and stop pulling aggro off the tank (which can be due to tank skill). I really don't know how much more "fun" you can make them...
62 Tauren Shaman
680
Yeah it is a quick fix. At the moment I haven't seen any other ideas that are worth looking at IMO. I have a druid tank, kinda fun. But until you require a DPS, standing in fire rule tanking will never be more fun.

I have a great time healing on my shaman, with my guildies that is.. Tanking won't be more fun until people stop standing in the fire and stop pulling aggro off the tank (which can be due to tank skill). I really don't know how much more "fun" you can make them...


My personal opinion is dungeons/heroics need to be made shorter. Shorter length = more throughput. Also less trash and trash should be trash. Same high difficulty for final boss only, medium difficulty for all previous bosses.(having to study every boss fight like a fricken raid for a heroic is part of the reason why tanking is a pain in the arse) CC also needs to go, it's just another thing the tank has to worry about(who can CC what at what range, which mobs need to be CCed etc...) and adds absoultely zero to make an encounter more interesting.
90 Orc Warrior
16240
want to lower queue times?
make them easier to do. the luck of the draw buff should help this a lot but we'll see if its enough.

the most likely people to want to queue for dungeons are people who need the gear. IE they don't overgear the heroics yet, and thusly they will have a much harder time completing the dungeon than someone who does.healers and tanks are obviously not queuing much and blizzard has been very stubborn on the issue of addressing the difficulty of heroics for our less skilled undergeared friends. L2P is nice in concept but it when I have to wait 40 minutes (in wrath it was about 10) as a dps I couldn't care less about that model.
85 Night Elf Druid
9390
I don't think extra rewards for tanks is a solution. The idea is make tanking fun so more people will do it, not bribe people into queuing as tanks.

As it is a lot of times I end up healing for groups where the 3 DPS are a pally, a warrior and a DK, or any combination of these 3. Of course these classes can DPS and shouldn't be forced into a role (like crazy discussions I see that if you have a tank or healing spec, you MUST do it 'cus it's not fair for the pure DPS class to share a queue with you).

Making tanking fun (I tanked a lot on my warrior at the beginning of Wrath, 'cus I liked the changes made to the tree) is what can fairly be done to encourage more people to try the spec. And from what I've been reading around the forums, it seems the changes needs to start at low levels, with a better learning experience for anyone trying a tank role, although there too, the collaboration of the other people is key, as very few give a tank a chance to learn what they're doing when they're blasting through in their heirloom gear without pause.

And yes, I agree with all who mentioned that before LFD, we could sit hours in trade waiting for a tank to volunteer, so the LFD, even with long queues, is still a good option if you want/need to PUG. And here's the thing, it's not mandatory, you can still build a PUG from your server, if you think that's gonna make your run more enjoyable/successful.
Edited by Potiara on 2/5/2011 8:21 AM PST
OK, I couldn't quite cope with reading 53 pages - so if this has been said before I apologize

WAYS TO FIX LFD -

1. Don't assume everyone else in your group knows the fights - ask! alternatively if you don't know then say so!
2. Mana regen no longer works as it used too, the combination of chain pulling and not stepping out of poop isn't an option unless you really do want to wipe - don't do it. If the tank (or the ubershamanwhothinkshe'satank/platedps) does it and you see the healer struggling - say something!
3. Be nice, saying hello at the beginning of the run and thx at the end of it won't hurt you - or cause a wipe.
4. Make sure you have enough time before you que, and so what if you die a couple of times, don't qq the healer or the tank - they are learning too!
5. Don't assume that your tank or group leader understands cc, not everyone has 8 lvl 85's and has been playing since the inception of the game - if you can cc and it becomes obvious that cc is needed, use it - mark your target first and say you are going to cc - cc is not the responsiblity of the tank, it is your responsibility to know how and when to do it!

Those are just a few suggestions, really LFD wait times aren't a blizzard problem, they are a community problem, stop looking to Bliz to fix it - especially when the issue is so easily fixed by the community.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
1420
I complety agree with the statement of "Want faster que times roll a tank". I did that in Wrath and will do that again if i want to tank again. If your goin to roll dps than suck it the F*** up and wait. You want faster times, join a guild and run em with them.
I've been doing regular randoms this morning on my mage. I am happy to report that the average wait time has been around 15-20 minutes (never going the full 20), and the overall attitude of the people I've been grouped with has been excellent. The tanks have been great, the healers clever, and the dps conscientious. CC has been well executed, and the dungeons have been going by at a steady pace. Also, when someone has mentioned they've not been to that particular instance before, there has been no balking or down-talking, and no-one has complained about taking a few minutes to explain the mechanics.

Put in relation to this thread, I would make the assumption that improved regular times and quality of people will soon translate into heroics as these people get the gear necessary to move up. Hopefully before too long, there will be a new batch of tanks/healers queueing and making the heroic wait times a little more bearable.
Edited by Sin on 2/5/2011 1:00 PM PST
85 Gnome Mage
3375
Heres an idea i had to reduce dungeon Q's.I brought it up to a few friends who think its the best idea so far,and i wish to share with you.As you know,learning the fights as tank,is difficult,people dont have patience.So more and more tank are goin dps.
Heres the idea,On EACH final boss in heroics,Add a (Rare drop) Fragment of a key,like a 1% drop,That can only be looted by Tanks.collect the peices off of each final boss to Complete a Key.
With that key,Un-lock a Cage Holding in,A Special Mount for Tanks only,Like a Gold Plated Proto Drake or sumthing.Well Geared tanks,will start lining up to run dungeons again,thus Gearing out
the Dps,and Majorly bring wait time down.
Give the Tanks A good Reason to run :)
ty
85 Gnome Mage
3375
I cant see my post,so if you already saw mine,sorry.
But HERES AN IDEA TO REDUCE DUNGEON Q"S.
i brought it up to a few friends,who all think,its the best idea so far.
GIVE GEARED TANKS,,a good reason to run more.
On EACH final boss(heroics) add a Rare drop Fragment,like 1% drop
(That can only be collected by Tanks)
collect the fragments off of each boss,to complete a Key.
With that Key,Un-lock a Cage that gives the Tank A Very Special TANK MOUNT.
Like a Reins Of the Gold Plated Proto Drake.
Most Tanks are geared to the teeth now,and only run heroics once a day for the daily.
Doin this,would bring em back.
And would give them a reason worth Carrying new and geared dps through,all over again.
30 min to 1hr wait for dps is ridiculous.
Make the Tanks wanna run more.,Reward them :)
I know,my main is dk tank,full Heroic and epic gear,so besides the daily,i have no reason to go back,and give people a smooth run.
85 Gnome Mage
3375
Opps ,i guess my last post went through lol..
sorry for making you read this twice lmao.
85 Gnome Mage
3375
On that note,dont make it a simple fragment,to complete the serie,u must get the fragment of off EVERY final boss.So tanks dont just run the easy dungeons over and over.
This topic has reached its post limit. You may no longer post or reply to posts for this topic.

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]