I also ask myself if the game has been broken beyond repair. The community seems to be completely destroyed by in-fighting and rudeness.
There is no doubt that the difficulty level has significantly increased. And this was done on purpose.
This has resulted in a significant number of players not being able to achieve their in-game goals.
Fail run > no fun > agro > rudeness > destroyed community
There were always rude and troll players in the game, now they are majority.
People talk about H dungeons but raids are even bigger problem.
At the beginning of ICC (when I started raiding), you would kill 1st 3 bosses and then wipe on Saurfang. After 2-3 hours of that you still had a sense of the achievement and fun.
After 2 hours of just wiping on a boss w/ no kills, how do you feel?
Were you LFG as ret pally?
Of course, it would take you minimum 2 hours, if you're lucky.
1. Tanks don't want competition for DPS loot - many of them were DPS main spec, who were tanking to get DPS loot, spending 50g to respec tank, then 50g to respec back.
2. Ret pallies had repent - works on humanoid out of combat only... much better CC available.
3. Ret pally DPS sucks.
4. Healers don't want ret pallies, since it makes getting tanks that much harder.
5. DPS don't want ret pallies, since it makes getting tanks and healers that much harder.
On my mage and rogue, it took ~10 mins to form a 5 man group during the times of global LFG channel. On my warrior, I arms/fury tanked in vanilla, and respec'd prot for 5 mans. On my pally, I went holy for 5 mans and raids.
The problem was you. Now, the rest of the "fine" people have to suffer because of players like you who won't give anything up for the group.
Were you LFG as ret pally?
Back in TBC this was my alt, and i was known on Barth for betting people i grouped with i would not only top the DPS meters, but ensure the tank and heals stayed alive...
SW ret pally did a little over 2k then i beleive, i was pulling roughly 1.6-1.7k in pvp gear with a few crafted epics... got mad respect for actually being a lolret that could dps
Currently, as I understand it the LFD tool will not queue 2 of the same class to an instance. So, for example, if there is a pally tank, there will not be a pally heal or DPS. This is presumably to avoid QQing over loot for off-specs.
Not entirely true. It will to the best of its ability attempt to balance across classes and gear type. (Based on personal experience.)
Yet you can still get cases where the best fit the queue algorithm could come up with was (3) druids (healer, tank and boomkin), a paladin and a mage. There just wasn't enough variety at the top of the pile in order for it to choose better, within a limited amount of time.
(My bet is that very few of the worgen were willing to queue as tanks or healers. If more had queued up as tank/healer, the DPS queues would have been lower as a result.)
And quite frankly - unless there are absolutely zero friends or guild members online, there's no way that I will queue up to tank a PuG. Especially not heroic PuGs where people are flakes and selfish.
It's more productive for me to work on archaeology, fishing, gathering, questing - and simply wait until we can put at least a 3/5 guild group together. (And most of our guild groups tend to be 4/5 or 5/5.)
Guilds and friends are *much* more appreciative of having fellow guild members or friends that are willing to tank/heal. They don't flake out after a wipe (or half a dozen wipes). They don't go off and nerd-rage that the healer failed to heal them when they stood in the fire, or that the tank sucks because they ripped aggro off of me in the first second of the fight. If they screw up, they'll either ask what they did wrong or will point out what they did wrong and apologize for it. If someone is still learning their role, they get coached instead of yelled at or insulted.
I pug'd a lot while leveling up after 4.0 hit (28-60 on my horde bear and 50-85 on my alliance bear). 10-20% of groups out there were filled with people who were rude, obnoxious, "me me me" and "go go go" types. So now we only use RFD to fill 4th and 5th slots in the group, for non-critical roles.
By running only with guilds/friends, I drastically shrink the chance that I will get one of those rude and obnoxious players in my group. Why would I *not* want to run solely with friends and guild members as a result?
Things they could do to make queue times quicker:
1 - Reward tank/healers more for queuing in randoms.
2 - Add variable difficulty for dungeons. Something like Easy-Hard in FO3/FONV/Etc . Heroic/Normal is more of a different mechanic, I'm talking about easing the AI, or buff/debuffing to form the difficulty.
3 - Retool content to be able to accept different combos than 3DPS/1Heal/1Tank.
4 - Cap queue times at X minutes (Eq 10) and if you don't have all roles, it puts in an NPC tank/healer/etc in it.
5 - Make dungeons easier so that a blink squirrel with no sense of smell can be successful.
There, some are harder than others, and some would work better, but there's 5 constructive ways to fix the queue situation.
25 Goblin Shaman
So GC's L2P blog wasn't telling us to take it or leave it?
Edited by Swiftey on 2/6/11 10:00 PM (PST)
I agree with the reply post, you cant fix people, amen thats the root of the problem exactly. hell we practically need a psychologist who also knows the game to work with the design team to come up with something.
Personally i dont run a random with randoms unless no one in my guild needs a "insta que"
Blizzard is always pushing for people to be in a guild the benifits thereof etc. well tanks that are in a guild are gonna wanna help their guildee's first. least respectable tanks anyways.
I do not have anything against running with pugs, the 15% boost? meaningless to me ive done countless heroics with guildee's and pugs, we get em done, some of the more enjoyable runs have been the runs with 5-6k dps'rs and 60k mana healers, we still got it done it was truly heroic but it was done.
To me i think blizzard needs to make the daily heroic random even more literal, only random people to collect your reward. people can just get a group of guild memebers, blaze thru their random collect their 70 valor points and go do other things.
It's not going to fix the problem but like the other poster said you cant fix people, however i feel it would help alleviate the que times a little maybee even alot, thats up to blizz they need to run their numbers, maybee increase the VP reward to a nice round number like 100.
People who want to do heroics to gear up with drops from these instances can still do so, they can get their guild grps go blaze thru stuff whatever, but the people who only do a heroic once a day anyways cause all they need is their VP will help be part of reducing que times for everyone.
but once again this is one of many possible different idea's that could help shorten que times, Blizzard is fantastic at grabbing idea's and polishing them up, hopefully they read this one and everyone else's, well reasonable and "polite" ones anyways.
sorry i know this is long but i just saw a post where another tank said they dont que without a guild grp cuz its a waste of thier time and pugs are "flakes and selfish"
I am so very sorry a tank has posted that on behalf of i hope alot of normal tanks i apologize and strongly disagree, that is a terrible mindset to have and plain wrong. i would so very like to flame this fool into the ground but unforunatly i would be stooping to his level. all i can say is if there is a blue reading this IGNORE that guy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
85 Orc Warrior
I work in manufacturing. We take great pains to design our product to be so easy that an idiot can figure it out. We made descriptive labels, we make user instruction booklets, etc that explain exactly how to use it.
I actually support this.
Obviously, if tanking and healer were fun and appealing, more people would do it.
But, they aren't. People like big numbers... they like big weapons... they like seeing real, tangible, obvious results for their actions.
Tanking and healing just don't present these obvious returns. They are, for a lot of people, just not that much fun. It's not about difficulty -- it's about enjoyment.
Maybe Blizzard should take a look at that before they blame the player base for not choosing the "right" class/spec.
For some reason i can't quote but this is directed at Mogtra. Blizzard is doing nothing wrong with the implementation of their LFD system. You can't get a more real, tangible result for playing a tank or healer than the completion of a dungeon or raid. Without you, those 3 dps wouldn't have gotten anywhere. Every group begins with a healer and a tank, the 3 dps are all interchangeable parts. Yes, many people like to see the big numbers flashing but there's a reason that tanks and healers can't do this and it's called balance. Imagine if a tank or healer could put up the same numbers as the top dps'ers, or even 85-90%. Why in the world would you fill in a raid or dungeon group with anything other than tanks and healers? If this were the case then my normal heroic run would consist of 3 tanks and 2 healers and we would be able to faceroll content.
I don't see it as Blizzard blaming the player as much as telling them the easy way to circumvent the longer queue times is to play a tank or healer. If you don't like those, then that's fine but you should really expect to wait because there's no reasonable way to avoid them. Dumbing down the content so dps can tank is boring, giving tanks and healers higher dps to make them more appealing is balance breaking, so we are left with relying on the player base to adjust and maybe fill in a few of the roles that cause the queues to be high for dps. If you know of a way to cut queue times but leave the difficulty please share it.
Edited by Grimslaide on 2/7/11 12:11 AM (PST)
Blizz can do a lot to fix it. For example, they could lower dps all around, and make sure the dps uses its other skills. Or they could give me more than one kick per instance.
I have one spec, bear, and I will not use LFD unless I have my own healer, and at least one of my own dps, due to many times of grouping with rude people, players that don't know what interrupts/crowd control/debuffing/etc is, and dps that wants to pull at it's pace, not mine.
I take my tanking seriously...I know it's my job to make sure the other 4 people in my group get to the end of the dungeon, without dying if possible, and in good time. But hunters sending in pets because 'it's just trash' while the healer is drinking is just rude imo. My job is to get us to the end safely, theirs is to kill the stuff I pull. I can't do your job as well as you, you can't do mine as well as me. And when you take it upon yourself to try, it pisses me off.
It's been posted a lot in here, but I'll say it too, just in case the dps has missed it.....learn to use ALL your skills, and be polite in groups. Those two things will probably go a long way in making your queue times shorter in the future.
Really, look at some of these rude posts, and tell me that's not your attitude in game as well. There's why you have long queue times.
Fix it, and profit.
Edited by Smokêmadkush on 2/7/11 2:07 AM (PST)
Funny... Does any1 here even know how the LFD tool works? What about when your waiting for 35min you get dc'ed by random and now youve lost your que... imo it should save your spot for atleast 2min... that is quite unfair to place you back at the beginning of the que for something that is obviously a server hiccup or something.
You/we pay a subscription fee to make the game more enjoyable and to fund its ongoing updates/addons for the amount of revenue there should be a reasonable solution to fix the wait times.
Now that i think about it, During BC around the time BT was released heroic wait times were 25mins+ for DPS.. but then Why where Wotlk Heroic ques 15min~ for DPS..? and now Cata is 40min+?..
That cant possibly be because people arnt playing "tanks" or "healers".... if anything more people are tanking/healing.. the lower Dual-spec cost made it so most people have a dps / tank/healer spec or a pve/pvp 1.. new race and faster exp gains in northrend.. everyone is leveling another character after they hit the max cap just like blizzard intended.. so tell me how there is less healers and tanks then wotlk?
imo if you want to make a large change combine pvp talents with pve ones..make a 3rd spec choice activated only once you enter the battleground of your choice.
If its THAT big of a problem combine battlegroups or make a script to connect people faster... thats all =)
Pretty easy solution to the healing side: Put healing back to where it is fun, easy and you can carry the casuals/noobs/idiots some and the queues will ease up a lot. Myself, I hung up my druid's horns a while back deciding that I am done facing the stresses of trying to heal pugs instead of enjoying the time I have after working all day spending way too much time running a heroic.
I suggest a choice for those that want/like the new healing style. You can choose to spec into it or keep a more easy healing style. Be quite interesting for all the trolls that say you are bad if you can't heal blah blah to see if they take the easy way out...I'm betting they would :)
I have been playing wow since release but I'll tell ya, Rift is looking better and better....
Edited by Kezia on 2/7/11 5:21 AM (PST)
perhaps they can do something with the realm list say instead of having is certain battle groups have the LFD range spread over the all the realms but still that may not fix the problem I concur it is the people queuing up for the Dungeons not the actual tool itself. Those who like to heal will heal, those who like to tank will tank and get exceptionally quick que times. If you don't like the que times change to a spec that is in more demand like a number of people do don't just complain about the length of the que and expect someone else to solve your problem.
Why do you think that blizzard would make the LFG? To speed up the process, Before you had to do it yourself and find people to do a heroic, and it was only in the same server as you. But now you have a button that you click, and all your do it pick a class and hit join. It makes a group for you from several different servers so that you can get more tanks and heals and dps, because if your realm is short some tanks or heals, then being in the LFG will add in the other realm that is overloaded with tanks and heals, they have tried several things to make ques faster, Think about dual spec? Please pallys go heals and tank, please warriors go tanks and dps. They did all this for a reason, and now the LFG for your battle group. Just to try and make stuff easier for the people that play. Well none of it is working again so they are thinking of a new way, im pretty sure what they are doing now is "Look at your guild and group with them" This way you get half a group and your guild gets stronger it all makes sense in the end. you just got to think about what they are doing to try and fix these problems.
Edited by Fornacis on 2/7/11 7:01 AM (PST)
You noobs forget what it was like finding a group in Trade Channel for random dungeons? It would take up to 2 hours on our realm, AND if you weren't in a known guild you wouldn't get accepted or your would get kicked with no consequence.
The LFG tool is amazing.........its given a majority of WoW the chance to experience a dungeon where we wouldn't otherwise.
Suck it up....go farm dailies or gather while waiting....geez.
If you think the game needs more tanks then own up baddies.....and LEARN TO TANK...
More tanking classes isn't the answer.....DB's will always exist.
Edited by Idedtoo on 2/7/11 7:25 AM (PST)
hmm... Why not add an LFG guild tool. So people can queue for randoms with other guilds they have made agreements with or for just there guild? Just a thought.
I also agree with Fornacis. I remember "/2 DPS LFG for heroic pst." Doing that took so long I would often give up there. So LFG is good.
I did do some testing, I noticed that the LFG queue time is ALOT lower when you are lower level and begins to raise at around level 40 to about 30 min or so to cap out at level 85 at 45 to 50 min.
So my afor mentioned LFG for guilds I think would help too. Have both LFG for randoms with randoms and for people who know each other in guilds. It just makes sense to me.