word on crusader strike not generating hopo?

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85 Human Paladin
Vox
5315
Im hit capped and exp capped but my CS still gets parried.

100 Human Warrior
14705
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


So are DKs going to start having dodged attacks not generate runic power and waste the rune?

Seems like this unfairly punishes paladins compared to other classes. Particularly prot paladins who always dps from the front, and Ret paladins on encounters where your design forces us to DPS from the front.
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
02/08/2011 4:29 PMPosted by Hadyn
Probably because warriors have zero self healing when compared to the monster that is WoG. Thanks though.



And yet you still mitigate around the same amount of damage around now.


What effect do you think this is going to have a Tier or Two down the line where Paladins are forced to gear for Hit/Expertise caps when no other tanking class is not bound to this and can go all out on Mitigation?
5 Human Paladin
0
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


Does this mean, we will still get HP from a dodged or parried attack? Warriors do get rage when their attacks are dodged or parried.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9970
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


Trading off a huge amount of mitigation and avoidance for our resource to mechanic to work is not balance WoG and vengeance has been the problem with balance
85 Human Warrior
10045
02/08/2011 4:22 PMPosted by Irontager
Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


Prot Warriors also don't have a significant part of their self-healing/mitigation effected by not being Hit/Expertise capped, why are Paladins the double standard to this?

It
You're destined to fail if you try to compare Prot Paladin self-healing and Prot Warrior self-healing. We don't even have significant self-healing, let alone the fact that our talented healing ability is activated by RNG while our target is under 20% and is susceptible to *gasp* misses, dodges, and parries.
4 Undead Rogue
0
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


I'm sorry I have to come back to this, this is ridiculous. Do DK tanks lose runes when they are dodge, blocked, or parried? Do warrior tanks lose that 20 rage when shield slam misses? (Honestly don't know about warriors, lol)

I understand if you don't want to necessarily reward a player for missing, but for Ret, the spell goes on cooldown, how you don't see that as over kill is beyond me.
1 Human Paladin
0
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


A clarification on what a "miss" actually is would be really, really helpful here.

Currently, this "bug" covers parry, dodge and block. There are mobs that have a 100% chance to block, either as a buff or a permanent aura, is it seriously intended that a Protection Paladin will have no way to generate Holy Power because of that?
90 Human Warrior
8880
of course prot warriors miss shield slams... people are talking about a melee spec not getting the same treatment as all the other melee specs. it's not exactly fair that ret has to use the same attack as prot, under 2 different rulesets to begin with, but now to have the tank drawback on a dps spec is..ew :(
85 Human Warrior
10045
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


A clarification on what a "miss" actually is would be really, really helpful here.

Currently, this "bug" covers parry, dodge and block. There are mobs that have a 100% chance to block, either as a buff or a permanent aura, is it seriously intended that a Protection Paladin will have no way to generate Holy Power because of that?
It doesn't cover block.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046566238?page=5#95
80 Blood Elf Paladin
3790
02/08/2011 4:34 PMPosted by Hadyn



And yet you still mitigate around the same amount of damage around now.


What effect do you think this is going to have a Tier or Two down the line where Paladins are forced to gear for Hit/Expertise caps when no other tanking class is not bound to this and can go all out on Mitigation?


You didn't lose any mitigation, and your self healing will still be better... I DON'T GET WHY YOU ARE CRYING.


Stop trolling.
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
02/08/2011 4:34 PMPosted by Hadyn
You didn't lose any mitigation, and your self healing will still be better... I DON'T GET WHY YOU ARE CRYING.


WoG doubles as Mitigation if used at a max health threshold. The matter of self healing is irrelevant if we take more damage than the other tanks do and lose potential mitigation stats due to having to gear for caps. That's where Paladins lose mitigation, it doesn't have to be direct nerfs..

Trolling? I'm honestly trying to figure out why this is a problem other than you might not get to spam your "LOLIBETHEBESTTANK" button as much


Clearly Paladins were completely OP and all other tanks were being sat for HMs.


Also, a 15-10% loss ASSUMING Hit/Soft Exp caps of HP generation is pretty darn significant.
Edited by Irontager on 2/8/2011 4:41 PM PST
58 Orc Death Knight
0

I'm sorry I have to come back to this, this is ridiculous. Do DK tanks lose runes when they are dodge, blocked, or parried? Do warrior tanks lose that 20 rage when shield slam misses? (Honestly don't know about warriors, lol)

I understand if you don't want to necessarily reward a player for missing, but for Ret, the spell goes on cooldown, how you don't see that as over kill is beyond me.


DKs don't generate RP when their rune abilities miss/dodge/parry.
Warriors do waste rage if their abilities miss/dodge/parry.

When you think about it, it's kinda silly that you generate HP off of miss/dodges/parry.

85 Human Warrior
10045
02/08/2011 4:39 PMPosted by Irontager
The matter of self healing is irrelevant if we take more damage than the other tanks do
Since when did Paladins take more damage than the other tanks?
85 Human Paladin
9705
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.



This change is bad and inconsistent with your design of other melee classes. As has been previously stated, the other melee classes don't get punished with loss of a resource when they miss or are dodged/parried/blocked. Rogues don't lose energy or combo points, Warriors still get rage, DKs don't lose their rune, etc. And in the case of Arms Warriors, they actually are rewarded with an Overpower when they're dodged.

A Paladin getting Holy Power when they miss Crusader Strike ISN"T being rewarded for missing. Its just not being unfairly penalized for missing. There is a difference.

This kind of change is likely to have a significant impact on Paladin tanks. Will it cripple them? Maybe not, but its a significant reduction in both threat generation and survivability. Also, it pigeonholes them into gearing for hit and expertise when other tanks can essentially ignore those stats.

This is also a considerable hamper on Rets, particularly in pvp against classes that use shields and/or agility. Especially when the cooldown on Crusader Strike is so long, missing one can severely stall the use of our Templar's Verdict, Inquisition, and Word of Glory.

Also, if what Bravehearth said about it having been considered a bug when it was doing this before, then you're either mistaken or lying.
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
DKs don't generate RP when their rune abilities miss/dodge/parry.
Warriors do waste rage if their abilities miss/dodge/parry.

When you think about it, it's kinda silly that you generate HP off of miss/dodges/parry.


But you get the Runes back, which means all you really lost was the GCD.

For Paladins, not only do we lose the GCD, we also lose the CD which is essentially another GCD

02/08/2011 4:42 PMPosted by Kalc
Since when did Paladins take more damage than the other tanks?


They don't. In future tiers of raiding, if this change stays in place, they will. We won't have the time to gear for 102.4% avoidance, while Warriors will. Druids already got a huge Armor buff that is likely to be a mistake. DK tanks are getting it the worst with the bastardized mechanics forcing them to decide between their mitigation and basic tank debuffs that all other tanks bring mindlessly.


I'd kill for some parity about now.
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