word on crusader strike not generating hopo?

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4 Undead Rogue
0

DKs don't generate RP when their rune abilities miss/dodge/parry.
Warriors do waste rage if their abilities miss/dodge/parry.

When you think about it, it's kinda silly that you generate HP off of miss/dodges/parry.


Like I said, generating Holy Power removed, fine, but it should not put my CS or HotR on cooldown, thats just ridiculous. I honestly didn't mind the holy power system up until now, this really makes it frustrating to play. As QQish as that sounds, being a tank only to get a bad string of 3 parries is going to be such a pain. No matter my gear, or skill level, I will probably have to drop down to being a off tank, I'll try it out in a bit when our raid happens, but I can't see this being playable.

As for rage or RP cost, I don't know how to change that, I would say do something with Mana, but our PvE holy power system completely made mana obsolete.

And don't even get me started on PvP... ;)
90 Draenei Warrior
5415
02/08/2011 4:22 PMPosted by Irontager
Prot Warriors also don't have a significant part of their self-healing/mitigation effected by not being Hit/Expertise capped, why are Paladins the double standard to this?
Yeah, poor poor pallies, occasionally not getting to use the thing that warriors don't even have...
1 Human Paladin
0
It doesn't cover block.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046566238?page=5#95


Question withdrawn, at least about block. I can understand miss and perhaps dodge (due to soft cap being reachable), but parry? 56 expertise is a bit extreme.
Edited by Targen on 2/8/2011 4:51 PM PST
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
02/08/2011 4:50 PMPosted by Demonsong
Yeah, poor poor pallies, occasionally not getting to use the thing that warriors don't even have..



This topic is just full of sadist Warriors isn't it.


You'll never stop complaining and having class envy until you just so happen to be the best tanks again. It was like this in Wrath too.
85 Human Warrior
4530
02/08/2011 4:47 PMPosted by Irontager
They don't. In future tiers of raiding, if this change stays in place, they will. We won't have the time to gear for 102.4% avoidance, while Warriors will.
Currently, only Paladins were able to reach being unblockable (iirc). Was it fair that Paladins had it so good up until now? It seems that all they're doin is tryin to even the playing field for everyone.

It doesn't cover block.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2046566238?page=5#95


Question withdrawn, at least about block. I can understand miss and perhaps dodge (due to soft cap being reachable), but parry? 56 expertise is a bit extreme.
If you're hit capped and soft-capped for expertise, you only have 7.5% chance to miss CS. 7.5% isn't not a big deal, tbh.

02/08/2011 4:53 PMPosted by Irontager
You'll never stop complaining and having class envy until you just so happen to be the best tanks again. It was like this in Wrath too.
The other tank in my guild is a Paladin, and he happens to agree with me. Maybe it truly isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
Edited by Kalc on 2/8/2011 4:54 PM PST
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6885
tell me this is a horrible joke? if not why can you not just give us protection paladins free hit for speccing protection or something of the like then?
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
02/08/2011 4:54 PMPosted by Kalc
Currently, only Paladins were able to reach being unblockable (iirc). Was it fair that Paladins had it so good up until now? It seems that all they're doin is tryin to even the playing field for everyone.


We could only reach unblockable this tier of raiding if we literally sacrificed EVERYTHING else, to the point where it wouldn't even be worth it in BIS HM gear. In a Tier or so of Raiding Warriors would be able to reach the same number, and I'm sure we've all seen Xav's Mastery stacking already.

02/08/2011 4:54 PMPosted by Kalc
The other tank in my guild is a Paladin, and he happens to agree with me. Maybe it truly isn't as bad as you're making it out to be.


If it was just Miss or Dodge, I'd be complaining a lot less. Before I complain even more I'm going to test it out on Raid bosses this week, if I find it that I have to keep stacking Expertise past the soft cap there will be hell to pay.
90 Draenei Paladin
9135
So we Retribution Paladins are supposed to deal with the fact that we may not get our HP (just a reminder: we now get one every 4 seconds) on fights such as:

Cho'gall
Magmaw
Maloriak (during red phase)
Chimaeron (during Feud phase)
Theralion
Argaloth (half the fight)

?

Well, that's ok.

It's not like our HP generation has been ridiculously reduced to the point that we spend 1/3 of every fight with absolutely no buttons to press.

Oh wait.

(That's my first QQ post! Was it good? :D)
Edited by Kaitun on 2/8/2011 5:01 PM PST
90 Human Paladin
17680
I'm actually more concerned about the PvP rammifications of this change (as well as issues with fights where rets have to DPS from the front of the boss)
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7395
Lol, why even bother gearing up my Ret set now.
85 Human Warrior
4530
02/08/2011 4:59 PMPosted by Irontager
We could only reach unblockable this tier of raiding if we literally sacrificed EVERYTHING else, to the point where it wouldn't even be worth it in BIS HM gear. In a Tier or so of Raiding Warriors would be able to reach the same number, and I'm sure we've all seen Xav's Mastery stacking already.
So what you're saying is that in a tier or two, Warriors would be able to reach what Paladins could do now?

02/08/2011 4:59 PMPosted by Irontager
If it was just Miss or Dodge, I'd be complaining a lot less. Before I complain even more I'm going to test it out on Raid bosses this week, if I find it that I have to keep stacking Expertise past the soft cap there will be hell to pay.
Like I have said, 7.5% is hardly a big deal, and barely noticeable.
Edited by Kalc on 2/8/2011 5:02 PM PST
90 Tauren Paladin
11845
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.



Bug my ass. Here's an old quote from CG
"One per cast. Otherwise we think paladins might want to always be hitting multiple targets, like "Let me tank the boss and one of the adds or my Holy Power generation will be low."

It was intended from the start to generate HP on CAST. This really shows how much you value your customers, make stealth changes that drastically affect gameplay, then come in here and insult us like this.

If you don't want HP generated on cast, then resest the cd on CS/HotR when they miss. This is beyond retarded.

In my current gear, I have 25.14% chance to miss/dodge/parry. This doesn't even account for the blocked attacks. I could easily miss 3 or more CS's in a row.
Sounds like a lot of fun to play.

You guys have no #!@%ing respect.


85 Human Warrior
4530
02/08/2011 5:01 PMPosted by Destruktive
This doesn't even account for the blocked attacks.
Blocked CSs still give HP.

02/08/2011 5:01 PMPosted by Destruktive
I could easily miss 3 or more CS's in a row.
With 25.14% chance to "miss", the chance to miss three in a row would be 1.589%.
85 Draenei Death Knight
4100
02/08/2011 5:01 PMPosted by Kalc
So what you're saying is that in a tier or two, Warriors would be able to reach what Paladins could do now?


Do it and still maintain balanced EH in other areas? Yes. At that stage Warriors would be by far the best tanks in the game, taking 30% less damage MINIMUM on every melee attack. Paladins to reach the 102.4% would ultimately have less EH than gearing up with just a healthy balance of stats leaning towards mastery.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
6235
Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.

When a Prot Warrior misses his Shield Slam, he doesn't lose all of the rage he spent on it. 80% gets refunded back to him.

When a Death Knight misses his Death Strike, the rune doesn't completely go into a cooldown. He can try Death Striking again with the same pair of runes on the very next GCD.
85 Human Paladin
2425
Gotta love a stealth nerf that they stealth add to the patch notes as a "bug fix" after people start complaining about it. Just more proof that the devs are out of touch with the game and their customers.

Just fcking rediculous.
85 Human Paladin
9705
Ok now guys. I hate this change as much as the rest of you. In fact, I think its pants-on-head stupid and completely unnecessary. However, a few of you are being most hostile than you need to be. Its a bad change, but the sky isn't falling and the Devs don't hate us.
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