word on crusader strike not generating hopo?

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90 Human Rogue
17275
02/08/2011 7:05 PMPosted by Falinae
This was a bug.


No, it was not a bug. This was working as designed, as per this thread by GC back in Beta: http://www.wowblues.com/us/discusion-on-holy-power-holy-shield-26262867468.html

To quote GC in that blue tracker post:

One per cast. Otherwise we think paladins might want to always be hitting multiple targets, like "Let me tank the boss and one of the adds or my Holy Power generation will be low."


So why the change? If the miss simply caused a reset of the GCD it wouldn't be so bad, but as it stands both prot and ret suffer. Ret in particular as it's already a very RNG based spec.


You're my new hero. No sarcasm at all. I love seeing Blues inserting foot into mouth.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
This was a bug. A note for this has been added under the Paladin Bug Fixes section here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2166872

Missing attacks should not generate Holy Power. We generally don’t reward characters for failing to land attacks. Retribution paladins can improve their hit or expertise like other melee DPS specs do. Tanks don’t generally stack a lot of hit or expertise, but we think Protection paladins will still be able to tank just fine. Prot warriors for example miss Shield Slams.


Im sorry but this is complete BS and you know it.

You people really are clueless, and its rather insulting that you assume that we are just as clueless.

Shoulda came up with a better excuse for your stealth nerf, because this was pretty pathetic.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
6800
This "bug fix" needs to either be reverted. This is the easier change I would think.

or

CS needs to be changed so that it does not go on CD when it does not hit a target. Which, with 80% mana return added into the mix, would make it roughly equivalent to how other CP-building classes work.


I can deal with mana not being returned, as it is not a huge limiting factor for Ret, but generating HP or having the C/D refunded is something that is necessary because of the way things work. If mana was a huge limiting factor than i would push for its return but since CS doesn't cost that much to begin and mana isn't very limiting(except in PvP) than i am not really worried about it.
90 Human Paladin
8315
No other class is punished to this extent when one of their resource generating attacks miss

- Warriors gain 80% of their rage back when one of their attacks miss
- Death Knights have their rune refreshed and strike ready when they miss one of their rune using strikes
- Rogues are refunded the energy when one of their attacks miss


Added to that, the only skill that reliably generates holy power for retribution is Crusader Strike, seeing as Divine purpose no longer generates "hard holy power" and the effect on it is only a 15% chance with only 2 skills that dont require holy power to use. We either needed another attack that reliably generates holy power or for crusader strike to generate HoPo even when it misses
90 Blood Elf Paladin
0
There's nothing much to be said that hasn't been brought up by other concerned Paladins and I agree with most of them.

My biggest concern with this change is the fact that we have some pretty annoying dead spots in our rotation from being forced to use abilities in place of where we would normally use either SotR or WoG.

This is pure speculation but I think this change was put into place as slight of hand to either nerf our self healing or force prot to reforge into hit/expertise because our mastery allows us to cover so much of the combat table. Neither of these nerfs would bother me at all if they actually did a direct nerf to them.

As is, our rotation now is extremely clunky. Even after reforging to the expertise soft cap, tonight I was experiencing 9-12 second periods of ZERO holy power generation. That just sucks.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235

Wait you don't have mana? And you only get threat from CS?


1 reliable way to gain holy power, which is the center function of the entire class, just got gutted.

mana is not even comparable to holy power bro. A prot needs it, because a chunk of their survivability is and threat are dependent on it, and they are balanced around that.
100 Blood Elf Paladin
6800
02/08/2011 9:43 PMPosted by Hadyn


Contextually, aren't we talking about the Impending Victory talent or whatever that protection talent is?


No one specs it!

Well very few do, especially on the high end, and generally only for heroic modes where the dps reqs forced them to drop a healer or healer mana is extremely thin. Even so, it doesn't even compete with SoI and WoG.



When Shield Slam is the only way to gain rage for prot warriors, then I would view this as a valid example.


Wait you don't have mana? And you only get threat from CS?


So than Warriors should not be refunded Rage if an attack is missed/dodged/parried, if i am understanding you correctly. CS is the only way for a Prot Paladin to get Holy power which is the only way they can get Holy Shield up.

Stop being an ass and realize that this hugely impacts the ability for Prot Paladins to generate threat and subsequently affects how they gear, which will than impact survivability. Removing Rage return and misses and such would be a similar and overly punitive mechanic.

If you think Prot has too much survivability and threat than that is something to discuss but doing something as dumb as this is in no way a solution to those problems.
85 Dwarf Paladin
3655
ROFL
85 Human Paladin
5835
1) Rogues typically not only max yellow hit, but also aim for Spell hit.
2) On top of that, our CP generators aren't on a 3 sec CD,
3) plus the "mana" spent to generate a CP is 80% refunded.

The only real loss in a Rogue rotation of a missed/dodged/parried CP generator is the loss of 1 GCD. Palis lose mana, a GCD, an additional 3 seconds (if not more) building a 3 point HoPo finisher.


Pretty much this. With Paladins being cooldown limited, expecially Prot, losing out on our single Holy Power generator can be huge. It wouldn't be so bad if Holy Power Generation wasn't so sluggish for Ret and Prot.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
3790
This change does have a hell of an effect. Just trying to do the daily love is in the air quest, and after several crusader strike misses, the holy power I already have dissipates.

Now after reading what ghostcrawler said in the past, you have to wonder if a developer was just putzing around in the code, said "hey, this is a bug" then changed it. Then never told anyone, so it never got into the notes.

Fine if it's a design change that they decided they needed, and tested out to see it's effects. But you know, blizz, this absolutely was not a bug. You designed this way on purpose.
100 Human Paladin
18215
This "bug fix" wouldn't be so bad if CS's cd was reset.
100 Draenei Warrior
6605
02/08/2011 4:53 PMPosted by Irontager
Yeah, poor poor pallies, occasionally not getting to use the thing that warriors don't even have..



This topic is just full of sadist Warriors isn't it.


You'll never stop complaining and having class envy until you just so happen to be the best tanks again. It was like this in Wrath too.
Not even. I love tanking with the warrior. I wouldn't tank on any other class. I feel that for my playstyle, the warrior is absolutely the way to go.

But, nearly spammable self heals are something that pallies have that we don't. It's a bonus, an extra little kick that makes a difference in some situations, but isn't all that helpful in different situations. Yet you and others are trying to make a huge deal out of it, whining that you'll have to worry about hit and exp capping just to be able to use your little bonus ability as often.

Regarding self-healing, you're whining that your steak isn't cooked to your liking when the rest of us are eating cheeseburgers. It's amusing.

But no, I'm not a sadist warrior, and there is no class envy. In every respect other than self healing, I feel vastly superior to paladins.
85 Dwarf Hunter
6170
02/08/2011 4:42 PMPosted by Kalc
The matter of self healing is irrelevant if we take more damage than the other tanks do
Since when did Paladins take more damage than the other tanks?


I thought bear's take the most damage as they are unable to block or parry?

90 Human Death Knight
6270
02/08/2011 10:09 PMPosted by Baddos
This "bug fix" wouldn't be so bad if CS's cd was reset.

Fair.
90 Human Paladin
0


I thought bear's take the most damage as they are unable to block or parry?


Well whats funny about their comment is that bear tanking's mitigation is, was, and has been just as, if not more tied, to landing attacks than theirs is now. Yet they are outraged.


Druids got a free 10k armor this patch. They were complaining, but now they've got enough armor that they don't care. Or we can't hear them through all that mitigation.
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