What are you getting for 4.0.6 simcraft value

I ran it for myself and another mage. I have gone haste heavy with enchants, gems, and reforging. He is still sticking to crit.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/reik/advanced
Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
2.9844 2.1073 1.4728 1.1345 1.0211 1.0630


EDIT: Reforged back to crit. Lost about 700DPS on simcraft.

Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
2.7442 2.0569 1.5277 1.1859 2.2723 0.8865



http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/tichondrius/dropyothong/advanced
Int SP Hit Crit Haste Mastery
2.8326 2.1472 1.3798 1.0929 1.6142 0.9934


Also ran a couple of heroic dummy tests and I seemed to be pulling around 1k lower.

I joined a 25 man argaloth today, and these are just crude numbers of the DPS.

Unholy DK ilvl 354 21633.4
Fire Mage (Me) ilvl 355 18461.8
Ret Pally ilvl 350 18302.1
Survival hunter ilvl 357 18427.4

Very interested seeing unholy DK still way above everyone. Maybe just RNG. Ret pally also pretty high compared, even at lower gear lvl. Survival hunter are not reigning anymore.

After us 4, DPS drops to 15k and lower.
Edited by Reik on 2/9/2011 8:57 PM PST
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85 Worgen Mage
6515
i personally was quite stunned, it says i should be pulling 19k DPS but i can only do 16K

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85 Goblin Mage
0
02/09/2011 12:34 AMPosted by Angeloffire
i personally was quite stunned, it says i should be pulling 19k DPS but i can only do 16K


Human error, lag, buffs, etc.
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I am trying out a higher haste value and so far my dps is far higher- however that is likely due to the mana being so much better meaning I can use fireball the entire time.

I think with the relative values you have to remember it varies according to the individual character- so although haste might be more of a dps increase for one mage, different gearing could place a different relative value on it for another toon.

You also have to remember a single fight, or a few dummy tests are very very influenced by rng, i.e. terrible hot streak luck as well as human error in testing (also the rotations of a human are never strictly the same and controlled the way a sim is).

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There's gotta be some cap somewhere for haste.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
7370
Silly question, where do you find out stat weighs after you run the Sim?
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Options
Scaling
Analyze
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85 Troll Mage
7450
Still using crit. Did 23,846 on argaloth yesterday. #28 fire mage ranking.
Edited by Seefour on 2/9/2011 10:13 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Mage
10010
02/09/2011 10:10 PMPosted by Seefour
Still using crit. Did 23,846 on argaloth yesterday. #28 fire mage ranking.

Crit lost no value, but the value of haste has increased, and has been revised. If you have high crit and low haste, you will more than likely have very swingy RNG. Some fights you will do terrible, and some fights you will do extremely well, and some fights you'll just be average. Haste balances it out and makes everything chill, at least from what I'm seeing.
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Pretty sure crit did lose value in simcraft because of ignite munching, while haste gained value because of lower mana cost.
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85 Troll Mage
3160
I'm curious about the impact of the increased value of haste in pvp. It's unlikely that it suddenly became useful, though.
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85 Troll Mage
7450
Keestus you're wrong. There really isn't that much RNG. Your crit % is your crit % minus crit suppression of each boss. I haven't had that much trouble with hot streaks. My dps only waivers drastically on short aoe fights where impact doesn't happen right when I need it to (maloriak).
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85 Blood Elf Mage
7370
Int 2.7444
SP 2.0459
Hit 1.2794
Crit 0.9688
Haste 1.2527
Mastery 0.7660
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85 Goblin Mage
8765
Int - 2.5
SP - 1.8
Hit - 1.3
Crit - 1.07
Haste - 1.067
Mastery - .8
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85 Dwarf Mage
8600
02/09/2011 10:30 PMPosted by Seefour
Keestus you're wrong. There really isn't that much RNG. Your crit % is your crit % minus crit suppression of each boss. I haven't had that much trouble with hot streaks. My dps only waivers drastically on short aoe fights where impact doesn't happen right when I need it to (maloriak).


Except there is. I just pulled up your kill from that argaloth you mentioned, you had 35/66 fireball crits... over 50%. THAT is RNG, right there. In fact, if you look at any high firemage on world of logs, they probably had an abnormally high crit rate (exluding cumbustion-AOE).


EDIT: there/thier/they're.... its important.
Edited by Sammew on 2/9/2011 11:35 PM PST
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85 Worgen Mage
2910
I think people are beginning to understand that the RNG variance is actually bigger than we thought. Not only are you dealing with regular RNG (which a good number of our talents are dependent on) but the order of crits makes a huge deal for munching.

It is slightly amusing that it's only become a big deal now since people on EJ made a bigger deal out of it, because even in Beta, on these very forums, it was known that Ignite Munching was a bigger problem than ever.
Edited by Jibba on 2/9/2011 11:35 PM PST
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85 Troll Mage
7450
02/09/2011 11:26 PMPosted by Sammew
Keestus you're wrong. There really isn't that much RNG. Your crit % is your crit % minus crit suppression of each boss. I haven't had that much trouble with hot streaks. My dps only waivers drastically on short aoe fights where impact doesn't happen right when I need it to (maloriak).


Except there is. I just pulled up your kill from that argaloth you mentioned, you had 35/66 fireball crits... over 50%. THAT is RNG, right there. In fact, if you look at any high firemage on world of logs, they probably had an abnormally high crit rate (exluding cumbustion-AOE).


EDIT: there/thier/they're.... its important.


Generally speaking the uptime on double potting for the fight adding ~2% crit I'm sitting at roughly 44-45% crit on fireball and 50% crit on pyroblast for argaloth. 8% one way or 8% another seems rough but when you consider that most fights aren't lasting 2:30 like argaloth and are actually lasting 8-10 minutes on heroic difficulty that tends to average out significantly.

My personal opinion on why most mages numbers vary significantly is difficulty getting effective combustions up with the proper dot situation. There is a huge skill check there. As I said before the only major dmg to fight variance I have is on the timely aoe fights where you are at the sheer mercy of a 1/10 chance impact proc. There is a massive difference right now between a mage getting up a 45k pyroblast with all trinkets procced and combusting with a huge ignite and a 1k ignite from a dot proc every 2 minutes.

The "RNG" QQ is VERY overstated and is not causing people to vary by 4-6k dps. Thats a skill failing.
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85 Gnome Mage
Eos
5240



Except there is. I just pulled up your kill from that argaloth you mentioned, you had 35/66 fireball crits... over 50%. THAT is RNG, right there. In fact, if you look at any high firemage on world of logs, they probably had an abnormally high crit rate (exluding cumbustion-AOE).


EDIT: there/thier/they're.... its important.


Generally speaking the uptime on double potting for the fight adding ~2% crit I'm sitting at roughly 44-45% crit on fireball and 50% crit on pyroblast for argaloth. 8% one way or 8% another seems rough but when you consider that most fights aren't lasting 2:30 like argaloth and are actually lasting 8-10 minutes on heroic difficulty that tends to average out significantly.

My personal opinion on why most mages numbers vary significantly is difficulty getting effective combustions up with the proper dot situation. There is a huge skill check there. As I said before the only major dmg to fight variance I have is on the timely aoe fights where you are at the sheer mercy of a 1/10 chance impact proc. There is a massive difference right now between a mage getting up a 45k pyroblast with all trinkets procced and combusting with a huge ignite and a 1k ignite from a dot proc every 2 minutes.

The "RNG" QQ is VERY overstated and is not causing people to vary by 4-6k dps. Thats a skill failing.


If by huge skill check you mean huge RNG check, then I agree entirely!

Edit: I guess I should actually say something about this.... How can you honestly believe that combustion is entirely skill based with the existence of ignite munching and inherent RNG involved with crit, hot streak and trinket procs in general?

In order to get the best combustion, you would need:

1. LB on the target (skill)

2. Pyro dot on the target (RNG)

3. A Large ignite bank on the target (Very RNG, even blind luck given the state of Ignite)

4. Trinkets procced. If they're on use, then its fairly RNG. If they're procs, its VERY RNG.

5. Potion buff up. Also fairly RNG.

You can say "Oh but you can just wait for all those things to happen before using combustion" but its not at all unusual for all of those things to never happen on a given encounter.
Edited by Arkenthro on 2/10/2011 9:14 AM PST
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100 Human Mage
14265
02/10/2011 8:18 AMPosted by Seefour
The "RNG" QQ is VERY overstated and is not causing people to vary by 4-6k dps. Thats a skill failing.


Repost but very much relevant:

Let's take 2 of Logoz's parses on Chimaeron last week. Last monday, his 25 normal mode kill scored as the 3rd highest fire mage parse on this boss. The next day, his guild killed him on heroic. From a DPS point of view, this fight doesn't change at all other than a much higher DPS requirement. The differences between normal and heroic only affect the tanks and healers.

Monday: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-i15dlaczwo6eekgc/sum/damageDone/?s=10002&e=10291
Tuesday: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bn3ih1jg8z7se4de/sum/damageDone/?s=12127&e=12547
Same mage, same gear, same skill. Guess which parse is NOT going to be reflected on StateofDPS? When you compare his ranked normal mode parse from Monday with his heroic kill on Tuesday, we see:

Monday: 48% of his fireballs crit
Tuesday: only 37% of his fireballs crit

Monday: 33% crit on living bomb ticks
Tuesday: 27.5% crit on living bomb ticks

which leads to:

Monday: 16 hot streaks on a 4:49 fight, 50% of them crit
Tuesday: 16 hot streaks on a 6:59 fight, only 25% of them crit

Monday: Ignite dealt 975072 on a 4:49 fight
Tuesday: Ignite dealt 965056 on a 6:59 fight

Monday: 20.8k eDPS
Tuesday: 15.1k

He also had a higher % uptime of caustic slime on his ranked parse. Granted, he also had dark intent on his ranked parse but I would have a very hard time believing that 3% haste and 10% dot damage is responsible for a 5k DPS swing on a fire mage from literally one night to the next.
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