Bear Armor Buff is way Over the mark

85 Night Elf Druid
1940
I understand that savage defense is a bit weak for aoe tanking trash and such, but I now stand at over 62% dmg reduction on physical hits from armor after the patch. 62%!! That's 9% more than my dk has and far more than any warrior/paladin I've seen. Add that to our 12% flat dmg mitigation and 18% magic mitigation and druids are the flat out, best mitigation tanks in the game.


Let the fact that I'm a druid prove I'm not just complaining about another class getting a buff.. this armor increase is way too much. Either buff the other classes (particularly dk's) or bring this bear armor down a notch.
85 Tauren Druid
4580
No
85 Tauren Warrior
10510
Maybe it'll stop the savage defense complaints?
85 Night Elf Druid
1940
02/08/2011 9:52 AMPosted by Yéto
No



Ah-- a druid who can't see beyond his own class to acknowledge how ridiculous this buff is.

Druids were already arguably one of the better choices for bosses--now we're head and shoulders above everybody else. If a buff was necessary (which I don't think it was) this was far larger than it needed to be.

Druids can out-avoid and out-mitigate any tank at physical and magic dmg without using a single cooldown...
85 Tauren Druid
4580
To follow up my iPad post, which makes typing long responses prohibitive:

Druids were the weakest tanks in terms of overall survival due to the following:

-Lowest armor
-Lowest self-heals
-No block

We've always been behind block tanks, but it was made up for by our high avoidance, armor, and stam.

Savage Defense is very poor at the moment, but now that our armor is where it should be we are now definitely strong tanks.

Take savage defense away if you want, the extra 11k armor I got will more than make up for it.
85 Worgen Druid
4235
So, in other words, you want bear druids to have nothing.

Our single target threat is in the crapper compared to other tanks, thanks to the patch.

Our AoE threat is a joke.

Savage defense is unreliable.

What do we have? Tell me.
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
My guess is that their internal numbers showed that SD was underperforming in actual heroics/raids, as many of us suspected. Hopefully it's just a temporary fix until they can fix SD in 4.1.
85 Tauren Druid
4580
No



Ah-- a druid who can't see beyond his own class to acknowledge how ridiculous this buff is.

Druids were already arguably one of the better choices for bosses--now we're head and shoulders above everybody else. If a buff was necessary (which I don't think it was) this was far larger than it needed to be.

Druids can out-avoid and out-mitigate any tank at physical and magic dmg without using a single cooldown...


You're just flat wrong - druids weren't the strongest choices for bosses, but rather are being picked above some other classes for fights like Maloriak and Al Akir due to poor add tanking and strong mobility.

Have you even raided yet? From the looks of your guild/gear, i'd say no, and while I'm not progressed into heroic raids I can definitely say I have a much better understanding of the state of our tanking post-heroic dungeons than you do.

Just because you think something doesn't make it right. Druids are finally where they should be.
Edited by Yéto on 2/8/2011 10:05 AM PST
85 Night Elf Warrior
10285
So, in other words, you want bear druids to have nothing.

Our single target threat is in the crapper compared to other tanks, thanks to the patch.

Our AoE threat is a joke.

Savage defense is unreliable.

What do we have? Tell me.


You were balanced. Now you probably aren't.

But whatever, i'm sure the game will roll on just fine.
85 Tauren Paladin
1240
I'm actually really happy that druids got a nice buff. Congrats! I almost want to roll heals so I can run with bears lol
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
An armor buff of this magnitude with no other change makes Druids way superior to any other tank for damage reduction.

Period.
85 Tauren Druid
4580
You were balanced. Now you probably aren't.

But whatever, i'm sure the game will roll on just fine.


How were we balanced?

Every tank had better self-healing than we did, 2 of them took 30-60% less damage on most attacks, and all of the other tanks have parry.

Yes, our avoidance is higher, but throwing all of that on top of the fact that we have a very unreliable, weak shield, little self-healing, and the lowest armor means that bears were not fine.

We're equal now - our single target threat got dropped to the level of other tanks with this nerf and our survivability was brought up to where it should be; again, equal.
62 Undead Rogue
580


You were balanced. Now you probably aren't.

But whatever, i'm sure the game will roll on just fine.


balanced meanning worse than warriors? plz
90 Worgen Druid
12790
Stop saying we had the lowest armor. We did not.
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
An armor buff of this magnitude with no other change makes Druids way superior to any other tank for damage reduction.

Period.


Which we should be, due to the lowest self-healing (once you count Warrior 6% external heals).
85 Tauren Warrior
10510
So, in other words, you want bear druids to have nothing.

Our single target threat is in the crapper compared to other tanks, thanks to the patch.

Our AoE threat is a joke.

Savage defense is unreliable.

What do we have? Tell me.


Your single target threat and dps were above the other tanks. Hence the nerf. Warriors were hit for the same reason.

Aoe threat got the job done. I believe that's what warriors were told back in WotLK.

Savage defense needs to be worked on, as in if they changed it too much to make it balance for Heroic raids it'd be OP for normal raids. Sounds hilariously similar to old block, doesn't it?

You have a lot of utility. You now have more armor than any other tank. You are still very very solid, and were very solid even before these changes.
Edited by Galvinias on 2/8/2011 10:09 AM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
Every tank had better self-healing than we did

Warriors don't.

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
2 of them took 30-60% less damage on most attacks

What?

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
and all of the other tanks have parry.

This is relevant, how?

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
weak shield

I lol'ed. SD is not "weak". It has problems in multiple incoming attacks within a short period, yes, but it is not "weak".

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
little self-healing

Irrelevant. See Warriors.

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
and the lowest armor means that bears were not fine.

DKs are lower.

02/08/2011 10:07 AMPosted by Yéto
survivability was brought up to where it should be; again, equal.

It's actually massively superior.

I appreciate what you're trying to say and all, but please use accurate information when doing it.

02/08/2011 10:09 AMPosted by Kalisti
Which we should be, due to the lowest self-healing (once you count Warrior 6% external heals).

Not a self-heal? Also to help account for the fact that Warriors have the lowest "stance" modifier of anyone.

I don't think anyone understands just how absurd Bears have become if no counter-balancing changes were included with this.
Edited by Arielle on 2/8/2011 10:14 AM PST
90 Tauren Druid
9060
My paladin partner sits at 42k armor, this change put me at 45k. Not much of a difference (before he had 8k more armor than me). A small armor difference I would say is easily balanced out by the fact that he (and warriors) take 6% more healing when we don't (not going to get started on WoG). It's more fair now than it's ever been, still not in our favor so there is no reason to ask for nerfs to our own class.
Edited by Nash on 2/8/2011 10:27 AM PST
90 Orc Warrior
10130
02/08/2011 9:59 AMPosted by Kalisti
My guess is that their internal numbers showed that SD was underperforming in actual heroics/raids, as many of us suspected. Hopefully it's just a temporary fix until they can fix SD in 4.1.


Riiiiight.

It's a bad change. Even if SD provided a third of the benefit that it is theorycrafted to, Bears would still be well ahead of other tanks with this change.

85 Tauren Druid
4580
Every tank had better self-healing than we did

Warriors don't.

2 of them took 30-60% less damage on most attacks

What?

and all of the other tanks have parry.

This is relevant, how?

weak shield

I lol'ed. SD is not "weak". It has problems in multiple incoming attacks within a short period, yes, but it is not "weak".

little self-healing

Irrelevant. See Warriors.

and the lowest armor means that bears were not fine.

DKs are lower.

survivability was brought up to where it should be; again, equal.

It's actually massively superior.

I appreciate what you're trying to say and all, but please use accurate information when doing it.


Block >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SD. SD is weak. Mine absorbs for 20k. My paladin got a 70k block last weekend. How is that even close? Edit - when i say my paladin, i mean the other tank.

And warriors have Impending Victory + Blood Craze + 6% healing

And forgive me if DKs had lower armor....they also have the best self-healing, 4x + what we have, and a bubble that they can control on the same ability.
Edited by Yéto on 2/8/2011 10:18 AM PST
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