Bear Armor Buff is way Over the mark

90 Orc Warrior
10130
02/10/2011 6:56 AMPosted by Communism
it is a mystery


@ Commie:

Was the bear getting 6% from meta gem and did you fix it?

Thanks for fixing if so.
90 Tauren Druid
12020
That sounds like a fantasti- I mean, horrible interaction of little bugs.

Kinda cool. I mean, that's terrible.

I will now do the bear dance of near-impenetrability.
90 Night Elf Druid
9530
02/10/2011 7:42 AMPosted by Arielle
and I found I had to work for threat.

6% AP would not cause this.


Hmm. Well maybe I get grouped with overzelous DPS. I just find that in heroic, I have to work my arse off to get threat. In BH or something, the first few moments are extremely shaky, however I just chalk that up to the fact that no one seens to want to wait for me to get some Lacerates up on the boss before blowing all out on the boss. (And sometimes later in threat with hunters and locks who don't use their threat CD's appropriately.)

Or maybe it's a miscommunication issue between what I term as faceroll and what others term as faceroll. To me, people who claimed Druid threat was faceroll, I imagine they barely hit any buttons at all and never have threat issues.
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/10/2011 7:49 AMPosted by Vayash
AOE threat was nearly impossible to maintain in BoT without using berserk.

This is a function of our AoE tools not being as effective as other tanks', and the Thrash bug. Not 4.0.6.

02/10/2011 7:49 AMPosted by Vayash
Single target is lower than it needs to be

I don't think so. If I'm still fully capable of pulling 24-26kTPS, then you should be too.
90 Night Elf Druid
9530
I don't think so. If I'm still fully capable of pulling 24-26kTPS, then you should be too.


Pulling, spiking, or maintaning? Huge difference. And it seems lots of people are talking about issues with threat now, why do you feel differently?
85 Human Death Knight
11920
02/10/2011 7:57 AMPosted by Zarko
it is a mystery


@ Commie:

Was the bear getting 6% from meta gem and did you fix it?

Thanks for fixing if so.


Yeah, I updated it. The change should be reflected on the summary tab, -2k armor I think? There was also a random 90 bonus armor coming from a format error. I still need to set up the Agility Bear stats page.
90 Worgen Druid
5370
02/10/2011 8:15 AMPosted by Arielle
AOE threat was nearly impossible to maintain in BoT without using berserk.

This is a function of our AoE tools not being as effective as other tanks', and the Thrash bug. Not 4.0.6.

Single target is lower than it needs to be

I don't think so. If I'm still fully capable of pulling 24-26kTPS, then you should be too.


I can still pull 30-32k TPS; but thats a farcry less than I was doing last week compared to our pally now doing 35-38k (and doing 2500 more DPS than he was last week). Even our DPS/OT Pally is pulling 6-7k more TPS than me. All of our DPS has noticed the change (I had a ret pull off on Omni and get gacked; after that they watched omen more).

All of our tanks in equivalent gear doing Druid, 32k. Pallys 38k. Dosen't seem balanced just right (More balanced than me doing 55k sure)
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/10/2011 8:20 AMPosted by Vardar
Pulling, spiking, or maintaning?

Average over the course of a fight. And that's just in 10m, while still using a Seliza's spear, with my mostly crappy gear.

02/10/2011 8:20 AMPosted by Vardar
And it seems lots of people are talking about issues with threat now, why do you feel differently?

It seems that a lot of people were also just facerolling their way to victory without any regard for actually paying attention to how they were generating threat.

The two major changes with 4.0.6 are how you initiate an encounter, and how often you should be using Thrash. If you were previously just pressing Mangle, Maul, and spamming Lacerate you might be in for a bit of a shocker.

Try opening a fight by popping Berserk. See what happens.

02/10/2011 8:48 AMPosted by Vayash
(I had a ret pull off on Omni and get gacked; after that they watched omen more).

This is the Ret's fault. Lore was mentioning that his DPS went up by about 6k with 4.0.6, so your Ret in question probably wasn't expecting to do as much DPS as he/she was.

02/10/2011 8:48 AMPosted by Vayash
All of our tanks in equivalent gear doing Druid, 32k. Pallys 38k. Dosen't seem balanced just right (More balanced than me doing 55k sure)

Did their WoG usage go down? That is a more likely cause of their threat increase than simply a DPS buff.
90 Night Elf Druid
9530
It seems that a lot of people were also just facerolling their way to victory without any regard for actually paying attention to how they were generating threat.

The two major changes with 4.0.6 are how you initiate an encounter, and how often you should be using Thrash. If you were previously just pressing Mangle, Maul, and spamming Lacerate you might be in for a bit of a shocker.

Try opening a fight by popping Berserk. See what happens.


Can't open every fight with berserk, add to that I don't always have the rage necessary to just spam mangle. A lot of the berserk gets wasted if I open with it. I generally pop it a few seconds into the encounter.

That being said, see, "Faceroll" again. What the hell is faceroll?
85 Tauren Druid
3710
Warriors also have Enraged Regeneration which smokes Feral Regeneration. LS + ER easily tops off a warrior. Play some other tanks and you guys will see just how bad bears have had it in Cata.
85 Night Elf Druid
4460
I have to ask a question here. I haven't had time to work on my druid since the patch, and to be honest I'm a bit afraid to after hearing about all these changes. I've heard multiple people say that now we have to use Berserk when pulling. On one hand, that's fine. If we have an ability, it makes sense to use it. But Berserk is on a three minute cooldown. I can't very well finish a pull and say "Alright guys, hold on for one minute. I need my cooldown." Unless there's something I'm missing (which very well may be the case: I haven't tanked on my druid since 4.0.1
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/10/2011 9:08 AMPosted by Vardar
Can't open every fight with berserk, add to that I don't always have the rage necessary to just spam mangle. A lot of the berserk gets wasted if I open with it. I generally pop it a few seconds into the encounter.

Not every trash pull of course. But it will be available for every boss pull you do.

Unless we're talking 5mans and not raiding. In that case I could see it being a potential issue. Unfortunately that's not really my main focus :(

02/10/2011 9:08 AMPosted by Vardar
That being said, see, "Faceroll" again. What the hell is faceroll?

Faceroll:

Verb.

Definition: Rolling one's face on the keyboard to generate the desired result. Sometimes used to define those that pick easy ways of doing things, or lack of attention to detail.

02/10/2011 9:13 AMPosted by Cybellrian
On one hand, that's fine. If we have an ability, it makes sense to use it. But Berserk is on a three minute cooldown. I can't very well finish a pull and say "Alright guys, hold on for one minute. I need my cooldown." Unless there's something I'm missing (which very well may be the case: I haven't tanked on my druid since 4.0.1

Nothing has really changed for trash pulls. CC stuff, use AoE abilities and tab-spam Lacerate / Mangle.

I'm referring to boss pulls, especially with DPS that like to start the instant the boss moves in your direction. It's good to use in those situations, and will start you off with an impressive threat buffer.
Edited by Arielle on 2/10/2011 9:18 AM PST
90 Worgen Druid
5370
@Arielle

Its hard to compare anything in logs to this weeks logs, due to DPS changes we've shaved an average of 1-1.5 mins off our kills (2.30 on Halfus o.o).
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
@Arielle

Its hard to compare anything in logs to this weeks logs, due to DPS changes we've shaved an average of 1-1.5 mins off our kills (2.30 on Halfus o.o).

The only one that's really of any use is Double Dragon. Everything else has far too many variables that could cause differences.

Side note though - did you notice a huge melee damage reduction on Maloriak? I took like 800k less damage this week as opposed to last. It looked like his swing timer went up by 10%.
90 Worgen Druid
5370
Err..I'm add ###%# on Nef and Malroiak. Why over a paladin, I dont know. It just seems that since I'm tanking lead I get really irritating jobs. (Including being shield ###%# on Atra since our other MT dosent have a DPS OS).


And Chimeron would be a decent comparison for Tanks as well; considering we are the first gibbed in P2. Even with taunt switching neither of us throttles at all because we got used to the TPS change during Argaloth.
85 Night Elf Druid
8135
When you are first using Demo Roar? With initial threat being more of an issue, it seems needing to spend an essentially threatless GCD might become a problem.
90 Worgen Druid
5370
02/10/2011 9:29 AMPosted by Kalisti
When you are first using Demo Roar? With initial threat being more of an issue, it seems needing to spend an essentially threatless GCD might become a problem.


Normal pull is (No feral charge). FF, Mangle, Lac, Demo, Thrash, Mangle Lac, Lac, Pulverize Lac, Mangle. (Maul Macro'd into Lac and Mangle).

Demo is a big survival ability; has to be up 100% of time.
I dont feral charge anymore, complete waste of rage.
Edited by Vayash on 2/10/2011 9:32 AM PST
90 Night Elf Druid
CFT
10670
02/10/2011 9:29 AMPosted by Kalisti
When you are first using Demo Roar? With initial threat being more of an issue, it seems needing to spend an essentially threatless GCD might become a problem.

I don't use it until afte Berserk is over now. Hasn't caused any problems yet.
90 Night Elf Druid
0
When to use demo roar:

I don't use it until afte Berserk is over now. Hasn't caused any problems yet.


No but it causes huge problems for your healers.


IMHO- we shouldn't need a 3min CD just to keep up with what other tanks can do normally.
Do I do it? Yes I pop enrage/barkskin and Berserk on the initial pull and don't cancel the enrage.


@Vayash - I'm glad that works for you but no way with my dps folks that would fly. I'd have to taunt/growl by the thrash just to keep ahead. Have dps wait? I run with a DK or Pally. No waiting involved there.
And - Now I struggle even if they wait. Heaven forbid I get dodged or parried or miss - its a nightmare. And I lose vengeance during the fight for some reason? Dps will catchup.
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